If the confrontation cant be avoided....

[tallgeese]

Unaviodable is tought to pin down. And as noted, it changes with the dynamics of the situation.

Easily definable is if an attack is launched or the aggressor makes a movement clearly identifiable as a precurosr to attack that i can later articulate.

[the beast]

Pretty much what Joesteph said. The open hand guard with looking for witness's is the best approach.

As far as when to consider the time to defend, my teacher always had us do a imaginary circle around us. Typically about 3 feet all around. If the intruder invades that 3 foot space then you know its going to be a confrontation.

We sometimes would train to stay within that 3 foot distance, its tough but is doable.

I like to consider it like a hand grenade. if you are inside my reach you are inside my killing radius. I use this alot because I hate people invading my personal space( close talkers etc.) even if they are non aggressive I usually make them back off.

[bushido_man96]

Cross and Joe have a good deal of information going there; I think from what cross is describing, there is a difference between posturing and then crossing the line to attacking.

Posturing is something that is popular in the animal kindgom, and humans do it, too. The puffed up chest and loud talking/yelling are usually more akin to posturing than an actual impending attack. Its an attempt to intimidate someone into submissiveness. They end up being the dominant male, without having to even touch you.

On the flip side, if you see someone approach you that tends more to hunch down a bit, and rolls his shoulders up, then that is the guy who is probably going to take a shot at you; he won't be talking much.

[joesteph]

There's a good article in the September 2003 issue of Black Belt magazine, "High Risk: When Do You Act?" by Jim Wagner, p. 38. An excerpt reads:

For someone to qualify as an attacker, three elements must be present: means, opportunity, and intent. Means refers to the ability to carry out the assault. Opportunity refers to his ability to carry out the assault at that moment in time. Intention refers to his desire to attack you. Often intention is implied--such as when you're withdrawing money from an ATM and a guy [threatens you].

The article can be accessed in full at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=N9sDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT5&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPT37,M1

[jaddensinn]

Its been my experience that if someone asks you to "step outside" or they push you and are yelling etc. Its all because they have not reached a level of anger where they are ready to actually stike you yet. They are looking for a reaction, i.e. the moment you agree to step outside with them, or you push them back, or you join in on the argument with them then you are giving them the reason they are looking for to start actually fighting with you. If a person wants you to step outside its because they have a reason why they dont want to do whatever it is they have planned for you inside, the longer you can stay inside the better, in most cases.

I've found that to be true in my experiences as well. Last time I nearly got into an altercation a guy at a bar shoved me and did the whole "you wanna go?" dance. Him shoving me caught me a bit off guard but right after he did I got this calm focus and didn't bother responding to him verbally. I just kept my hands loose at my sides and waited to see what he would do, he backed down and took off when he saw I wasn't going to be provoked by him...

I think most self defense comes down to the bully rule, most guys that try to start fights are cowards themselves and just looking for something to prove... Of course there are the times when someone actually intends to hurt you out of malice but I believe that is a far smaller percentage of situations people are likely to run in to.

[Inya shaolin]

Up till now, I thought that my karate would only be used if I was being mugged in a dark street or attacked in a strange city while alone.I thought that people purposefully picking fights was something that only happened in action movies.

My teacher once asked the class what we'd do if someone tried to pick a fight with us. After a chorus of "kick him! punch him.... trip him?" he shook his head.

"Wrong!" he pronounced. "You run away. Got it?" In my way of thinking, an unavoidable situation is when you can't run away, or deflect the attacker peacefully.

[Shizentai]

This is a very interesting topic. I believe there are certain situations where a fight cannot be avoided. However, I also believe that these situations are not constant or the same for everyone. As we improve as martial artists, the likelihood of finding ourselves in a position where we must fight decreases. The more we grow as martial artists the more control we should have over volatile situations, and thus the more we should be able to choose peace over violence.

Being a small young female black belt often means that people don't feel threatened by me whatsoever. True, this may lead to my being harassed more often than the average tall muscly guy, but usually I would consider my non-intimidating stature to be one of my karate's most important protectors.

You see, I grew up in one of the highest crime cities in America. Even though I usually didn't ride my bike through the most dangerous parts of town, people have still attempted to mug me 5 times in my life. None of those times did they succeed, and none of those times did I so much as throw a single punch. True, the first two times it was because I ran my assailant over with my bicycle, but the last three of those times, I looked the person straight in the eyes and had a conversation with them.

Once a man approached me and my friends with a knife in his pocket and asked me for money. I smiled as I pulled my spare wallet out of my purse and poured out 43 cents. Then I told him:

"I hope you don't need to take the bus or something, because it's not quite enough for that. I guess I'm pretty broke myself. I don't have a car either so I know how frustrating it is to have to walk all the way home late at night like this. I'm ____ by the way, what's your name?"

The guy ended up taking an empty hand out of his pocket before hugging me and the other people I was with. He then turned away the money and left. Honestly, I never expected anything like that to happen. It was pretty weird. Who would have thought that something I said could have had that positive of an effect on someone. It made me indescribably happy that I hadn't chosen an alternative reaction and gotten into a knife fight.

I know this story is not like all scenarios out there, but if it's worth a human life (mine or another person's), I choose the peaceful way whenever I can. That's all any of us can do I think.

[tdiedwards]

When people offer self defense advice i often hear: "if the confrontation cant be avoided.... do this".

Im interested to know at what point people consider a confrontation "unavoidable", because from my experience most confrontations can be avoided right up to the moment where the other person throws the first punch.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are: I wish I lived in your town, because it seems like you have a polite class of thug. I have just spent the weekend in hospital after 5 lads decided to break a bottle over my head and give me a kicking. Nothing avoidable about it. There was no reason for them to do it, and so no way I could reason my way out of it. I was unable to run because I was surrounded. I think I tried to talk my way out of it, shortly before the bottle landed...

I like in Birmingham, UK

[Kuma]

You can tell by observing a lot of individuals whether they're actually serious or not. The majority just want to squawk like a rooster and act as if they want to fight but their body language says otherwise. If I'm speaking with someone though and you can see them almost reaching that "fight or flight" mentality (clenching their fists, posturing up, breathing heavily, pupils dilating, trembling a bit) I personally think it's better to be PROactive than REactive in that situation. I've seen people get like that only to be snatched up by the lapels by someone I work with and shaken a bit then you see them suddenly lose their courage. Whereas if we kept with our normal ways, he/she would be fighting us by then.

[Gordon Ramsey]

I usually ring the police while jabbing continuously.