The vertical fist

[joesteph]

TKDTutor has a 9 page discussion on vertical vs horizontal:

http://tkdtutor.com/09Techniques/Hands/Punching/HorizontalVertical/HorizontalVertical01.htm

Haven't had a chance to read through yet but you all might be interested.

It's actually quite interesting, DWx. I was surprised to find this included on p. 3 of the article:

Professor Mike Donovan, an ex-middleweight champion, in his 1893 book The Science of Boxing, advocated using using a three-knuckle landing, vertical punch. Jack Dempsey was an advocate of the three-knuckle, vertical punch, as it worked well with his "power line" theory (similar to the Wing-chun centerline theory).

I'm not familiar with Donovan, but I did revisit Dempsey's Championship Fighting. I was already aware that he favored striking with the last three knuckles of the fist, the ring finger's knuckle as the center from which a line is drawn down the forearm. However, I noticed (because I was looking for it) how many illustrations there are of vertical strikes--including Dempsey's "line." However, there are a number of illustrations of horizontal punches, making me wonder if it's what you're aiming at (and perhaps distance) that may dictate the better punch.

There is a reference to a simple experiment on p. 6 of the article:

- Stand with your arms hanging naturedly at the sides.

- Keeping your hands and wrist motionless and using only your shoulder muscles, raise your arms in front of your body to shoulder height.

- Now close the hands into fists.

The result the author points out is horizontal, but I've found that if I start with my hands at my sides, raise them one at a time instead of together, they're at 45 degrees. I can also start with them at my sides again, then reach out, and find they're at 45 degrees. When fighting, I believe the one arm at a time example holds truer than both arms at the same time.

I think the author favors the horizontal punch, which is not a problem as I see it, but I was looking for the 45 degree punch to be included; I didn't find it. Perhaps the author didn't want to include anything controversial.

You can likely write a book on this, but I was very happy with the article. Thanks DWx!

[Kuma]

I prefer the normal seiken (palm down), but a tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight. Other than that though, seikens for me.

[joesteph]

[A] tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight.

The vertical fist and the vertical spear hand are similar in doing this. I remember accidentally (I was being too aggressive) getting a spear hand through a sparring partner's guard position. We weren't supposed to use finger techniques, and for good reason; I accidentally touched his eye. He was disoriented for a couple of minutes, but fortunately turned out to be okay.

It's a good point, though, about the vertical fist having a better chance at getting through, Kuma.

[GhostFighter]

But wont knuckels break faster with the vertical fist since u tend to hit it with the bottom 3 knuckels where the horizontal hits with the big 2 ones?

[Kuma]

[A] tate tsuki (vertical fist) is good for getting through someone's guard who keeps it tight.

The vertical fist and the vertical spear hand are similar in doing this. I remember accidentally (I was being too aggressive) getting a spear hand through a sparring partner's guard position. We weren't supposed to use finger techniques, and for good reason; I accidentally touched his eye. He was disoriented for a couple of minutes, but fortunately turned out to be okay.

It's a good point, though, about the vertical fist having a better chance at getting through, Kuma.

Ouch! Glad to hear he's okay. I know if I was a new student coming to a dojo, I'd be a bit intimidated if some of the students were wearing eye patches

[bushido_man96]

But wont knuckels break faster with the vertical fist since u tend to hit it with the bottom 3 knuckels where the horizontal hits with the big 2 ones?

Not necessarily. If you align your striking properly, then you should be just fine. I have not had any breaks yet.