What Dan Level is appropriate for instructing?

[quinteros1963]

If a shodan is "just the begining" he/she should not be a head instructor of his/her own school, Any more than a high school graduate should become a teacher. Tutor or assistant is ok. I would say ni or maybe even san dan to be an instructor. I'm leaning toward san dan, but who am I?

[bushido_man96]

Knowledge doesn't mean teaching ability IMO. You might be a great instructor at 2nd kyu or a terrible 4th dan instructor. I don't personally see teaching as being part of being a great martial artist, just like I don't think you have to teach business to be a great businessman. It is a separate skill set that while essential, isn't for everybody.

I think that at times you can find those that have a knack for teaching, but for the most part, it is necessary to have experience in what you plan to teach in order to teach it effectively.

[bushido_man96]

I have yet to find and expert Karate Instructor...even my own teachers are not experts, they are constantly referring to their teachers and calling them and inviting them to come and show us the 'real' techniques of the style.

I think we get into semantics at some point here. "Expert" should not mean "perfect." However, if you are confident in what you know, and your ability to teach and relate the nuances of what you are teaching, then you are likely an expert. That doesn't mean that you may not have to consort a reference on something from time to time; that is a natural thing.

there should be no grey areas when it comes to being an instructor.

If there is, you are not being an instructor, you are being a student, and thats my point.

Here, I feel, that we don't ever really stop being students. I think that there is always something to learn, or review, etc. Now, if it does come to a point when you continually pull a "duh" in front of the classes that you teach, then it might be time to look into some re-training.

[sensei8]

What Dan Level is appropriate for instructing?

Not all black belts can teach no matter how solid their techniques are. They can be taught to teach, but in that, not all black belts can be taught to teach because it takes a special gift to teach. Therefore, not every student that graduates from Harvard can teach. Some can teach and some can't! Some lead while others follow!

I'm glad for this because as important as Teachers are needed in every field, we equally need Doctors, for example, and the like as well.

My Hombu has in it's By-Laws that teaching begins at Sankyu. From Sankyu to Nidan, these individuals are under the close supervision by their Dojo's Chief Instructor as well as closely monitored by the Hombu. At Sandan, those that are able to teach and exhibit all of the marks of an instructor are allowed to teach on their own, whether it be at their Chief Instructors Dojo or at their own Dojo.

Now these are just rules and regulations, nothing more and nothing less! By law, nothing is stopping anybody of any rank to teach the Martial Arts. Why? The laws of the USA doesn't governing the Martial Arts whatsoever! What's acceptable to the consumer is another! What's acceptable to the world of Martial Arts is another! Nothing in the world is stopping a Shodan from opening their own Dojo, eventhough, their Hombu/Chief Instructor might have something to say about it. Even then, nothing is stopping a Shodan from pursuing their own path, desire, and/or dreams. Is it foolish for a Shodan to do so? This is of differing opinions, mine, yes, it is foolish to teach on their own as a Shodan based on their lack of a solid knowledge base to glean from. Teaching requires understanding, therefore, understanding requires experience! Nothing is worse than both the instructor and the student learning/understanding, for example, a Roundhouse Kick at the very same time! Bushido_man96 said it well when he said..."Here, I feel, that we don't ever really stop being students. I think that there is always something to learn, or review, etc. Now, if it does come to a point when you continually pull a "duh" in front of the classes that you teach, then it might be time to look into some re-training." That's a solid statement!

[Wa-No-Michi]

there should be no grey areas when it comes to being an instructor.

If there is, you are not being an instructor, you are being a student, and thats my point.

Here, I feel, that we don't ever really stop being students. I think that there is always something to learn, or review, etc. Now, if it does come to a point when you continually pull a "duh" in front of the classes that you teach, then it might be time to look into some re-training.

No we never stop being a student of course, but equally this shouldn't be at the expense of someone else's education.

This is why you should be expert in / or upto the level of technique which you are teaching.

I just don't buy into the "teaching is learning twice over nonsense"... it's not. If you don't know your stuff well enough to communicate it to others you are at best a teacher of lousy ma and at worst a fraud.

There are too many dojo built on lies already and I don't want to be a part of that.

[Rateh]

As I have stated, I have been teaching beginner classes for some time. In my new style/dojang, I have also been called upon to help with students closer to the rank I myself am working on. When that was lower rank material, that was no big deal. Now it is a very frusterating problem (imho).

Last week at the red & black belt class, the higher ranked instructors had to be somewhere else that night. So the head instructor called me over and told me that she wanted me to teach the class, and that she wanted me to go over the forms over and over and over again.

Well this all sounded nice, I just said yes ma'am and got to it. Unfortunitly I had only recently learned many of the forms, and there were differences of opinion on what was correct in some of the techniques between me and the red belts. This was a very frusterating experience for me, and I think I lost the respect of some of the red belts, which I would understand.

You just can't teach something you don't have down pat yourself.

[sensei8]

It's common practice to see upper ranks to help/assist lower ranks. For example, it's not uncommon to see a yellow belt help out a white belt OR for seeing a green belt help out that same white belt, and what's important to note is that this is always done under the close supervision of the Chief Instructor and/or other Yudansha's on the floor.

Does this mean that this yellow or green belt in the example above ARE teaching the class and/or teaching the student that's getting the help? NO! Both have just stepped aside away from the class as to not disturb the rest of the class. Upper Kyu's are expected to assist the Sensei/Chief Instructor with younger or less experienced students. One higher ranked student is just helping the lower ranked student at the directions of the Chief Instructor/Sensei and/or other Yudansha's on the floor.

[granitemiller]

The more you know a subject, the easier it is to teach it, and the more fuller you will be able to teach it.

My first year as an adjunct professor at the university was quite a challenge! Then after each semester passed it became easier and easier, and I was able to broaden the topics, tie them together, etc.

Same thing with martials arts, the more experience, the better the teaching will be.

[armanox]

So....

Do we define teaching as when the instructor tells one student to help another with something (kata/technique/etc)? or as leading the class?

Under normal circumstances, class is lead by an "instructor" at my dojo. Our instructors are 2 seventh dans and a sixth dan. They generally lead the class. We have had lower ranked black belts run class before, in the event that the instructors were unavailable.

It is not uncommon for students to be asked to assist other students in our school.

[granitemiller]

I would saying leading the class