Was there outstanding west man amongst martial arts creators

[Boris]

Ok...it is understandable...in my preference, it is not question of famous creator but the question what they created...do you agree?

I explored sambo and understood Viktor Spiridonov + Vasili Oshchepkov did not make something really outstanding because they imitated judo...when you see sambo's fighting you can notice similarities with judo ...it has only another type of kimono, and regulars...that's difference(sorry, i do not think it is really outstanding achievement). It is also concerned with mostly systems founded in the beginning of 20 st century. On the whole, my investigation demonstrates me that mostly martial arts imitate and repeat itself...for example, Thai boxing and kickboxing, judo and sambo, and so on.

[Traymond]

Algene Caraulia was the founder of the kajukenPO system. He is Hawaiian.

[bushido_man96]

Ok...it is understandable...in my preference, it is not question of famous creator but the question what they created...do you agree?

I explored sambo and understood Viktor Spiridonov + Vasili Oshchepkov did not make something really outstanding because they imitated judo...when you see sambo's fighting you can notice similarities with judo ...it has only another type of kimono, and regulars...that's difference(sorry, i do not think it is really outstanding achievement). It is also concerned with mostly systems founded in the beginning of 20 st century. On the whole, my investigation demonstrates me that mostly martial arts imitate and repeat itself...for example, Thai boxing and kickboxing, judo and sambo, and so on.

The reason for this repeating is that there are only so many ways to move, and so many ways to dish out punishment on the human body. You can strike, you can grapple, and you can clinch and throw. It hasn't changed much over the years.

[tallgeese]

Very true. It's the reason so many small joint locking arts look similar.

Which I think that's why most major advances in ma's are in the realms of distilling specific movments for what you want and working them in to more efficient methods for accomplishing your goal. You can also see advances in training methods and more efficinet drill work.

That's where the big jumps foreward seem to occur, not in the creation of new movements or "arts" as a while.

[Boris]

Thanks guys! It is really true what you have written here. Thus, we'll beginning to understand that there are few people are great really in creation martial art systems...

[ShoriKid]

Most people don't "invent" much when it comes to combatives. Codify maybe, but damaging the human body is damaging the human body. And while you won't see many "western systems" of ma with drawn out histories and liniages tracked back through the ages for cultural reasons, some historic inovators for their codifying stand out. Many of the names of Western inovators/codifiers, come from armed disciplines since those were considered far more important and thus got put down in print more often.

James Figg for boxing(back when it contained throws and kicks)

George Silver for anything armed and western.

Otto the Jew for wrestling and grappling in the age of armed combat.

William Fairbairn with Defendu/do- Stripping out and finding ways to break the body for the military.

[bushido_man96]

George Silver for anything armed and western.

Otto the Jew for wrestling and grappling in the age of armed combat.

These are some very good names that I don't think a lot of Western MAist know anything about. Ott the Jew especially. Another big one for Western Swordsmanship is Johannes Licthenhauer.

[ShoriKid]

Bushido_man96,

If I could have spelled Licthenhauer without seeing it infront of me, I would have.

There are others too, but with the Western cultural tendancy to disgard the old and take up the new as warfare changed, not many have survived the passage of time and fighting methodology.

[Boris]

Yes, some names are more significant than others...I sure these names should be more popular and well know for people if in their time was television or movies..they should be heroes or idols for people. Thank you...i do not forget it..

[Boris]

I still hold that Mohamed Ali is the greatest champion of all times( he was if i am not mistaken more than 10 times champion of the world), and it is not important that today martial art competitions went to the category of MMA and there are more effective fighters. But he was not a creator of system...it seems like he was just novator of boxing because in first used dancing in his fights...