long time of medium workouts or a few very intense workouts

[ironsifu]

I think Maywether as an example is a bit skewed. This guy is a professional athlete and fighter, who would have spent upwards of 8 hours a day training, most likely 6 days a week. The typical Martial Arts practitioner doesn't have that kind of time to devote to training.

martial artists are not limited to poor skill just because they dont train 8 hours a day. a very high level of fighting skill can be developed training even 3 - 4 hours a week. i think whats more important is how much they train when they are in the gym.

the fighter should always be in the "improving" mode, training to get stronger, faster, and more accurate. occasional learning is not enough, we learn until we turn blue in the face, but skill does not happen until you train and absorb (not just understand or able to demonstrate) what was learned.

[tallgeese]

No they aren't limited to poor skill. But they aren't going to show the same improvment or skill level as a professionally training fighter. There's simply not the time. It's why guys in the UFC aren't training only 4-5 hours a week.

More time=more skill development. Mindset and methodology are important, but at a certain point you can't overcome the limitations of time management. You can certainly optimize your time for what ever it is that you want out of the arts. But I agree that the Mayweather example is skewed towards the high end of the spctrum.

[bushido_man96]

martial artists are not limited to poor skill just because they dont train 8 hours a day. a very high level of fighting skill can be developed training even 3 - 4 hours a week. i think whats more important is how much they train when they are in the gym.

I didn't say that those that train like me are limited to poor skill. In the years that I have spent learning and teaching, I have seen very talented individuals come in and go out, and I have seen individuals come in and develop talent over time.

When it comes to developing talent and skill, the rank system comes into play for most schools. A white belt, in my mind, isn't going to, and shouldn't perform like, a black belt. Now what an instructor has to do, is evaluate what level of development at the white belt level is acceptable to move onto the next level, and how long that should take. You can see differences is approaches to this method when you look at the requirements of Japanese Juijitsu and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. BJJ takes longer, and puts different emphasis on different skills. So in the end, is it fair to compare the skill level of the BJJ black belt with that of the JJJ black belt? Should the JJJ practitioners adjust their teaching and curriculum to be equal to that of the BJJ practitioners? I don't know, but is should bring up some more good discussion.....

[tallgeese]

The worth of a black belt rank should be considered within the system that it's awarded I feel. Each system has specific things it's good at and stresses. A bb rank in that school should be judged on that. Not all systmes out there even stress the same goals as their bottom line.

[joesteph]

I realize that much discussion has been about the black belt rank, but we recognize that there are many levels and lots of hard work going into getting there. In Soo Bahk Do, there are ten levels below first dan, and each of them has requirements that must be met--each with a "bottom line"--before moving up to the next level.

There are amounts of time in-between tests, and though we've discussed double-promotions in other postings, most students move up one step at a time, having put in their time training and then proving themselves worthy of promotion at testing time.

With all due respect to black belt, IMO, proficiency at each of the levels below it is really the primary focus, and having self-defense capabilities, as well as improving those capabilities, at these lower levels, are worthy goals. In my own art, there are two levels of white belt, two of orange, three of green, and three of red. A belt color change can be a reasonable short-term goal--or long-term considering time, especially during the adult years.

[Wa-No-Michi]

this is cross over from the "credible teachers" thread.

i think we have a good topic to debate, so instead of mess up that thread i decided to start a new one.

here's the question. i suggested that teachers should take about 3 months of very intense training on one technique, say 1,000 reps per workout plus sparring with the technique, in order to strengthen skill. another member suggested that less intense workout can give the same skill because eventually, you will do the same number of strikes.

my side: i disagree. in order for you to reach your peak in speed, power, and accuracy, you have to train a technique when your body is fatigue. you must also be capable of doing a high numbers of those techniques, so that you will have the maximum power speed and accuracy behind even just one attack using this technique. one push up a day for 100 days will not develop the strength like doing 100 pushups in one day (or 10 pushups in 10 days, etc.). this theory can easily be tested and proven or unproved, but since this is a message board, let's discuss it! lol

i'm not saying killer workout all the time, but we have to have these workouts very often or skill will never get beyond average. i was raised with this kind of training so i never tried the other way... even in my kids class we use high reps.

This might be right up your back alley as it were.

https://www.woma.tv/movies/J/beyond-technique---enter-a-small-door.html

Made me smile anyway.

[joesteph]

Enjoyable. And "Guru" Steve Rowe has a gentle way about him doesn't he?

[bushido_man96]

With all due respect to black belt, IMO, proficiency at each of the levels below it is really the primary focus, and having self-defense capabilities, as well as improving those capabilities, at these lower levels, are worthy goals. In my own art, there are two levels of white belt, two of orange, three of green, and three of red. A belt color change can be a reasonable short-term goal--or long-term considering time, especially during the adult years.

You touched on the importance of gaining proficiency in another post, but it fits here, too. I think that it is important to realize that this is what the rank system is for; more important is making sure that these proficiency levels are achieved before a student moves on. These small building blocks of proficiency will build the foundation for a good black belt.

[tallgeese]

I'd agree. It's fundimentals built over time that is the cornerstone of any system. Building thru each rank to a proficient level is a great way to make this happen.

That's a really good point, joe.