Yamashita Shorin Ryu?

[Giorgos]

Recently i heard the term "Yamashita Shorin Ryu" and i got confused...

Is a new branch of Kobayashi Shorin Ryu Shorinkan??Or independent from Shorinkan?? As far as i know Hanshi Tadashi Yamashita has as only teacher (as far as karate concerned not kobudo) Hanshi Judan Shugoro Nakazato founder of shorinkan...

so,is there a difference??

[Kruczek]

Tadashi Yamashita was a student of Nakazato. He came to America to spread karate and over the last 20-30 years has developed his own style that I have heard called Suibukan Shorin Ryu. It is based on his concept of Suikendo (The way of the water fist).

I know first hand having trained under him and now under Nakazato Sensei, that his style is Shorin-Ryu with influence from Shinpo Matayoshi and being Japanese not Okinawan I believe his moves are more "powerful" rather than fast.

To my knowledge in last ten years Yamashita Sensei had a bit of a falling out with Nakazato Sensei, as the story went - during some parade/ceremony Yamashita Sensei stood with Matayoshi Sensei instead of Nakazato Sensei.

While I do not agree with some of the changes that Yamashita Sensei has made to the katas, I believe he is doing exactly what Gichen Funakoshi did, he is changing things to better suit his American and Bulgarian followers, in particular, who are much larger than Okinawans and need to use more strength than speed. This is just like the formation of Shotokan.

Any other questions, I still have contacts in his organization that I could get more info from if you would like.

[Giorgos]

Tadashi Yamashita was a student of Nakazato. He came to America to spread karate and over the last 20-30 years has developed his own style that I have heard called Suibukan Shorin Ryu. It is based on his concept of Suikendo (The way of the water fist).

I know first hand having trained under him and now under Nakazato Sensei, that his style is Shorin-Ryu with influence from Shinpo Matayoshi and being Japanese not Okinawan I believe his moves are more "powerful" rather than fast.

To my knowledge in last ten years Yamashita Sensei had a bit of a falling out with Nakazato Sensei, as the story went - during some parade/ceremony Yamashita Sensei stood with Matayoshi Sensei instead of Nakazato Sensei.

While I do not agree with some of the changes that Yamashita Sensei has made to the katas, I believe he is doing exactly what Gichen Funakoshi did, he is changing things to better suit his American and Bulgarian followers, in particular, who are much larger than Okinawans and need to use more strength than speed. This is just like the formation of Shotokan.

Any other questions, I still have contacts in his organization that I could get more info from if you would like.

Thanx a lot,your info is really appreciated!

Actually i am member of Suibukan,a school of martial arts (teaching Kobayashi Shorin ryu, Matayoshi kobudo and Suikendo) founded by Sensei Babis Polixronopoulos (a Greek student of Sensei Yamashita).

Sensei Yamashita himself visits Greece twice a year at least,but i was always wondering if there was any difference with Shorinkan as far karate concerned (mainly with traditional kata)...

Any other information would be most welcome!

P.S: Sensei Yamashita born in Japan but since the age of 8 lived in Okinawa so i expected to have Okinawan culture about karate.

[Kruczek]

Sensei Yamashita himself visits Greece twice a year at least,but i was always wondering if there was any difference with Shorinkan as far karate concerned (mainly with traditional kata)...

Any other information would be most welcome!

P.S: Sensei Yamashita born in Japan but since the age of 8 lived in Okinawa so i expected to have Okinawan culture about karate.

Differences....

1) Yamashita does not implement (or did not two years ago when I was a member of his organization) Shizentai Dachi (Natural Stance).

In Pinan Shodan for example, the last few moves are Geidan Barrai (low block) then Jodan Uke (high block). In Yamashita System you do both moves from Zenkutsu Dachi (a "deeper" stance). In Shorinkan style you block low in Zenkutsu and then move forward into Shizentai dachi because it is quicker and you don't need any forward momentum to use the block correctly.

2) Shorinkan does not use, Kaki Dachi (crossed legged stance). They turn their body leaving a gap between their legs. I was told the reason is because it is easier on the knees, which is ideal as you age.

I am a huge advocate of Matayoshi and believe he knew what he was doing. For this reason I think that Kaki Dachi provides a smaller profile, is quicker to transition into and is a better stance, but I can also respect the knee argument.

3) Shorinkan does not officially recognize Gojushiho, Gojushiho Dai Ni, Okan, J'ion or Hakatsuru - all of which are in the Yamashita Curriculum (although Hakatsuru was never required for anything).

4) Suibukan requires things like Kihon Kumite Waza and Basic Weapons for Black Belt, Shorinkan COMPLETELY separates Kobudo and Karate

I will think about it tonight and see if I notice any other major differences.

[Giorgos]

Yamashita does not implement (or did not two years ago when I was a member of his organization) Shizentai Dachi (Natural Stance).

I assure you that neither now we use Shizentai Dachi

Shorinkan does not officially recognize Gojushiho, Gojushiho Dai Ni, Okan, J'ion or Hakatsuru - all of which are in the Yamashita Curriculum (although Hakatsuru was never required for anything).

When you write "recognize" you mean don't teach?Or does not recognize their importance as Shorin Ryu kata?? If i remember well, M.Bishop in his "Okinawan karate"(1989) writes that Shugoro Nakazato teaches Iju's version of Gojushiho..

Your info helped a lot!

[Kruczek]

Glad to hear Shizentai Dachi is being used. Thinking back to when I was younger I remember seeing Sensei use those stances, but we were always told (even at black belt level) to use Zenkutsu "Stances too high!!!"

As for "recognize", they have a list of Official Kata and those are not taught. Gojushiho IS part of the curriculum, not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that. The others, and I double checked, are not taught.

[Giorgos]

You get me wrong, we do NOT use Shizentai Dachi

My previous post was a bit misunderstanding!!

[Kruczek]

The irony is that sensei yamashita uses the stance in many demos and demonstrations despite not teaching it.

[NetNinja]

Sensei Yamashita refers to Shorin Ryu Karate as Yamashita-Koboyashi Shorin Ryu Karate. He does the same thing with Matayoshi Kobudo referring to it as Yamashita-Matayoshi Kobudo.

However, the certificates he issues officially state "Shorin Ryu Karate" and "Matayoshi Kobudo". Therefore, he leaves his name out of it.

According to him, he mainly views kata as a tool for strengthening the body and spirit. Some of the lower stances he utilizes are for emphasizing "KI" development and developing a strong "core".

The actual application of technique is done through Suikendo training, which has more natural stances and promotes whole body movement. It is very combat oriented and relies on a strong Karate foundations as a pre-requisite.

What I can definitively tell you is the Sensei Yamashita moves at light speed and hits like a ton of bricks. His Suikendo approach to engagement also allows him to always be in an advantageous position to his opponent.

BTY.....Sensei Yamashita is still friends with Sensei Nagazato regardless of whatever rumors that may be circulating.

[Kruczek]

Few things:

"... now the Japanese call it 'kobayashi style' but that is incorrect - but that is all right because only people who do not know Okinawan karate will call it by that name. Since they do not know you must gently remind them or the Okinawan people will laugh at their ignorance. After all, it is funny, many foreign people call it kobayashi shorin-Ryu (小林小林流)- that is just like saying shorin shorin-ryu. It doesn't make much sense ..."

Miyahira Katsuya Hanshi

My dojo broke apart from his style about the time he really began teaching Suikendo. His lower stance approach for building a stronger core is, in my opinion, excellent and I teach that way still regardless of affiliation.

When I learned, what was then called, Suiken Do Dai Ichi it fit your description of Suikendo Training.

I have sparred with him a few times while I was younger, once without pads where he threw me on my butt and I will be the first to say he is truly an amazing karateka.

What do you base your last comment on? I don't pretend to know more of the situation, but about a year or two ago Kyoshi Eddie Bethea hosted a seminar in which many higher ranking Yamashita students attended. This was when I was told there was a falling out.

Could you tell a little bit about yourself? Also was "Nagazato" a typo?