Taekwondo forms, boring?

[DWx]

Reading some stuff on TKDTutor and came across this paragraph:

The essence of Taekwondo is poorly reflected in any of the commonly recognized ITF or WTF Taekwondo forms patterns, whether they be Pinans, Chon-ji, Palgue, or Taegeuk. Their techniques are mostly an arbitrary series of movements that do not have many variations of kicking or punching techniques that do not reflect skill level of their assigned ranks. They are not particularly exciting to watch or perform, do not demonstrate any aspect of skill that is particular to Taekwondo, are nearly devoid of technical challenge, lack roots specific to Taekwondo, and are considered boring by most practitioners.

Opinions on this?

I would have to say I don't agree with this. I'm not that familiar with the Taegeuk and Palgwe but I still like watching them along with the Chang Hon forms. I personally don't find them boring at all. As for "skill that is particular to Taekwondo" some of the higher up Chang Hon forms get quite difficult with regards to leg technique and from what I've seen of the other form sets, leg techniques are a fairly large component. Other than leg techniques, I'm not quite sure what you would consider to be TKD's special skill. I think there is also a quite a lot in the way of technical challenge. IMO its about how in depth you want to look at them and how technical you want to be. You can just learn the movements and motions or you can try to develop that motion to create maximum power and efficiency for your body. And as for "lack roots specific to Taekwondo", I don't really see where the author gets this from. So ok maybe with regards to the forms there does appear to be quite a bit of Shotokan influence (some of the combinations are nearly identical) but still, the Chang Hon and poomse were developed specifically for TKD and to be used by TKD practitioners.

[The BB of C]

Interesting.

I'll say that I agree they are a bit boring to watch.

But I do agree with you on the fact that the forms look like they have roots in Shotokan.

I forget which form I learned, but in one 50-minute demo class, I was able to learn the whole of one of the Tae Kwon Do forms. So it's not like they're that hard. Not any of the ones that I've seen (four different forms, I don't remember the names)(sorry, that probably kills a lot of my credibility )

That's just what I have to say.

[Tiger1962]

Reading some stuff on TKDTutor and came across this paragraph:

The essence of Taekwondo is poorly reflected in any of the commonly recognized ITF or WTF Taekwondo forms patterns, whether they be Pinans, Chon-ji, Palgue, or Taegeuk. Their techniques are mostly an arbitrary series of movements that do not have many variations of kicking or punching techniques that do not reflect skill level of their assigned ranks. They are not particularly exciting to watch or perform, do not demonstrate any aspect of skill that is particular to Taekwondo, are nearly devoid of technical challenge, lack roots specific to Taekwondo, and are considered boring by most practitioners.

Opinions on this?

I can't comment on THESE specific forms since I've never seen them performed, however, the lower rank forms that I first learned, I will admit I get bored watching them, but I think it's because they are very simple.

Now if I were to watch the forms at my rank level or higher - ESPECIALLY higher - the ones I have not learned yet; I find them very interesting to watch. They are much more complicated, longer and when performed with the intensity and drama (for lack of a better word) that they should be performed with, I find it VERY exciting and interesting to watch.

I think to make it interesting to watch - forms/hyung/kata must be performed as if you were an actor - meaning with "drama", snap, and pizzazz. If you've ever seen a student do a form as if he's bored, asleep or sick, you will be as bored as he is. Now watch it done by someone who is lively and you get the gist of it. Sometimes even the simple forms become interesting if they are done with good enough intent.

I really believe you have to be a bit of a "performer" to do exciting and interesting forms.

[KarateEd]

I have learned both the Palgue and Chon-ji forms with my current school, so I thought I would address the quote that DWX posted.

Their techniques are mostly an arbitrary series of movements that do not have many variations of kicking or punching techniques that do not reflect skill level of their assigned ranks.

Since bunkai has never been emphasized at either the TSD school I used to attend or at my current TKD-based school, sometimes the movements do seem rather arbitrary. Also, I agree that kicking in these forms is confined mostly to side kicks, so the lack of variety is a valid point. However, the difficulty level does increase as new forms are learned.

They are not particularly exciting to watch or perform...

I disagree here. If you are watching a white belt go through his forms, yeah, that might be boring, but it isn't designed to be exciting to watch. it is designed to develop the balance, coordination, stances, etc. of a new student. I find that the higher level forms, when performed properly, are fun to watch.

do not demonstrate any aspect of skill that is particular to Taekwondo...

This strikes me as opinion more than fact. I guess the writer associates kicking with TKD and therefore wants to see more kicking in the forms.

[The forms] are nearly devoid of technical challenge, lack roots specific to Taekwondo, and are considered boring by most practitioners.

They can be technically challenging if the students performing them are held to a high standard so that sloppy movements, stances, etc. are not accepted. Are not the "roots of TKD" influenced by Japanese martial arts? As for being boring, once again, if performed properly, they can be exciting to watch.

[bushido_man96]

I would agree that the roots of TKD are there, with the Shotokan influences.

In the end, it will depend on what he would want the forms to represent. Does he want them to have the segments be more like sparring segments? More kicks? Higher kicking?

In the end, I think it will depend on what you want to take out of the forms, as to whether you will find them interesting or worthwhile or not. Stuart Anslow has found quite a bit to take out of the Chang Hon system.

I don't think that this system of forms is any more or less exciting to watch than any other MA forms system is.

[Truestar]

I have personally found forms beyond Yol-Guk to be very interesting, before then however, Chon-Ji to Won-Hyo, are not that exciting.

I think it's all on the delivery. A good Martial Artist could take any of those forms and make them look fantastic and worth your time, however a run-of-the-mill kind of a person may not perform with the same finesse.

So I don't completely agree with the passage.

[IcemanSK]

I find it interesting that this was quoted on TKDTutor. One wouldn't think that a site that wants to help folks understand TKD would say something like that.

I currently to the Tae Guek & BB forms as well as a few older forms from TKD's Japanese roots (Basai Dai, & Empi). I also did the Chang Hon & Pal Gwe for a number of years. I don't find them all exciting as the next, but I wouldn't say any of them are boring.

I still wonder why TKDTutor would say that. It makes them look like they don't like TKD....or forms.

[tenshinka]

heck out the Songahm poomse of the ATA...Those are some well designed forms. Also GM Kang Rhee of PaSaRyu TKD has modified the original TSD/KSD hyung with very deep stances, and various kicks that make the forms quite aesthetically pleasing, and very TKD'ish displaying the advanced johk sool of TKD...

fwiw,

--josh

[axispower]

Any form is boring if the person performing it presents it that way. A beginning form like Do San can rock if you have sharp stances, snappy punches and kicks, great intensity and know how to sell it to the judges.

[ninjanurse]

I agree here...any form can be "boring" to the observer just like like any other thing that is observed- I personally find tennis boring but that does not mean that the players are not skilled and good at what they do. If the form is boring to the performer then they are not looking beneath the surface (due to inexperience or lack of insight, or whatever) and will not learn it's true lessons. Forms are made up of single techniques and any technique, no matter how simple it may seem, takes a lifetime to perfect.