What is "Traditional?"

[joesteph]

Toward the end of his life, Otsuka sensei was recorded as stating that Wado was not finished. . . .

I wonder whether the late masters would have actually approved of us keeping things too traditional, or whether they would be somewhat cynical of groups that hang on to tradition for traditions sake.

I wonder if founders, being like parents, expect their "children" to surpass them, meaning that they would want what they've done not to be the alpha-omega, but the bedrock upon which what they have begun to build continues to be built upon.

[bushido_man96]

I wonder whether the late masters would have actually approved of us keeping things too traditional, or whether they would be somewhat cynical of groups that hang on to tradition for traditions sake.

This is a good question. I wonder this myself. I think that it is necessary to have a reason behind the tradition, if you really are to consider holding on to it.

[tallgeese]

I think probibly that they would have. Let's face it, most of the people we hold in high esteem collectively from the history of the ma's were inovaters in some way.

Funikoshi fundiemtally changed things when he put such an emphsis on sparring. Kano introduced a ranks stucture as well as modifying his art. Yamaguchi merged elements from two countries into GoJu. Lee revolutionized training methods and mindset. The Gracies introduced much of the world to a modified grappling art.

None of these people were in a stagnet rut of tradition when they accomplished what they are or will be most remembered for. It's a good point that Michi makes I think.

[BDPulver]

This is a good question. I wonder this myself. I think that it is necessary to have a reason behind the tradition, if you really are to consider holding on to it.

I've sometimes wondered this myself also. Lately when I go and visit my sensei I'm always hearing that my teacher's sensei would look at old records and come back saying this is how Tatsou trained and tried to do same.

So a kata I was taught years ago comes back with how it was originally done and even though its suttle changes I always looked at those suttle changes as being evolution of the kata.

So it kinda goes back on what I originally said earlier is that you can trace the roots but if your trying to make it like the original is that really tracing the roots of the style being traditional???

[bushido_man96]

So it kinda goes back on what I originally said earlier is that you can trace the roots but if your trying to make it like the original is that really tracing the roots of the style being traditional???

Tracing roots is something that is much simpler than what most practitioners would make of it. Who is/was your teacher? Who is/was his/her teacher? Who taught that person? And so on...that is tracing your roots, or your lineage, or whatever you want to refer to it as.

Now, a lot of practitioners will cross train, or leave a style for one reason or other, and hook up with another instructor. Now, to say that one totally leaves behind the methods or instruction of a previous teacher for those of the new teacher is a bit of a stretch, in my mind. In some way, the influences of both or all of the instructors that one has had will maintain some influence on how you do what you do. Therefore, I think it can be easy to get wrapped up in several lines of lineage, but which would you claim? All of them.

[Triddle]

Personally I consider a traditional martial art to be any art which trys more to remain true to its roots than evolve with the times. Take for example,

Wing Chun Kung Fu

You have schools of wing chun which place more importance on lineage, and replicating the techniques of the old masters than anything else, this is TMA.

You might have another school of wing chun which cross trains BJJ and kickboxing and modify their wing chun to fit in with these.

Each has their value, and though both are Wing Chun Kung Fu, only one of them is traditional.

Though it does become hard to define, for example boxing is most certainly a traditional martial art in one sense, its one of the oldest practiced today and though it does evolve with the times it stays quite true to its roots, boxers have trained in much the same way for a long while now and the sport has stayed much the same. Most people don't look at boxing as TMA though.