What is "Traditional?"

[Wa-No-Michi]

The Martial Arts tend to be categorized, and the categories tend to go like this:

TMA: Traditional Martial Arts

MMA: Mixed Martial Arts

RBSD: Reality Based Self-Defense

XMA: Extreme Martial Arts

I would say that you should add "Classical" to your list. IE from a karate / jujutsu perspective, the Koryu arts of Japan / Okinawa from which the traditional ways that we know of today were spawned.

[Wa-No-Michi]

If you trained within an Aikido group that ran their lessons along similar lines to that of Morei Ueshiba, I think it would be safe to say that you attended a Traditional "Aikido" class.

However - what if you trained within a group that did "Aikido" techniques but took a modern approach to their teaching methods including training in street clothes etc.?

Are they still traditional? Is it what we do that defines us as "traditional" or the way we do it?

[Traymond]

In my own opinion and in what I have been taught.

Traditional martial arts, is a martial arts system that is in the same form as the way the founder created it. so in reality if you did not learn from the founder, its not likely to be 100% traditional.

Like if you learned Uechi Ryu from Bushi kanei, then you learned the traditional approach to uechi Ryu, but if you learn it from someone say Tomoyose Sensei, then it can be slightly differant,

but

Traditional martial arts also go into detail with the etiquette of the training hall as well.

You go into some modern schools and they don't even care if you bow in and out, or address a higher ranking student with proper respect.

Those are my opinions on what makes martial arts traditional.

[bushido_man96]

If you trained within an Aikido group that ran their lessons along similar lines to that of Morei Ueshiba, I think it would be safe to say that you attended a Traditional "Aikido" class.

However - what if you trained within a group that did "Aikido" techniques but took a modern approach to their teaching methods including training in street clothes etc.?

Are they still traditional? Is it what we do that defines us as "traditional" or the way we do it?

That's a good question. Is it? I don't know for sure. Another question is, does it matter if its taught the way Ueshiba taught it? I'd imagine that many would say that no, it isn't the "traditional" approach. However, we always wear clothing, no matter what we do, so should it be relegated to the attire as to what "tradition" is?

Here is another point: Ueshiba changed his Aiki-jutsu to his Aikido. If he made changes to a "traditional" style, then how can his style be "traditional" itself?

It can get confusing.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Here is another point: Ueshiba changed his Aiki-jutsu to his Aikido. If he made changes to a "traditional" style, then how can his style be "traditional" itself?

As I understand it, this was more to do with the political "climate" of the day. Fundamentally there is no difference between do and jutsu (in this perspective anyway), its just that the "do" thing at the time showed greater respect to the empire of Japan. But that's another thread entirely.

[bushido_man96]

Thank you for clarifying that. I didn't realize that was the drive behind it, I guess.

[NightOwl]

The Martial Arts tend to be categorized, and the categories tend to go like this:

TMA: Traditional Martial Arts

MMA: Mixed Martial Arts

RBSD: Reality Based Self-Defense

XMA: Extreme Martial Arts

I would say that you should add "Classical" to your list. IE from a karate / jujutsu perspective, the Koryu arts of Japan / Okinawa from which the traditional ways that we know of today were spawned.

I think that is a great idea- you might not be able to to call a new karate system 'classical' per se, but you could still refer to it as traditional in that it has a particular method of training and philosophy. Unfortunate CMA is already taken (Chinese martial arts )

[Wa-No-Michi]

The Martial Arts tend to be categorized, and the categories tend to go like this:

TMA: Traditional Martial Arts

MMA: Mixed Martial Arts

RBSD: Reality Based Self-Defense

XMA: Extreme Martial Arts

I would say that you should add "Classical" to your list. IE from a karate / jujutsu perspective, the Koryu arts of Japan / Okinawa from which the traditional ways that we know of today were spawned.

I think that is a great idea- you might not be able to to call a new karate system 'classical' per se, but you could still refer to it as traditional in that it has a particular method of training and philosophy. Unfortunate CMA is already taken (Chinese martial arts )

KMA - Koryu Martial Art?

Well sounds better than OSMA - Old School Martial Art

[KarateEd]

This is a difficult question to answer because I think each person looks at different characteristics when determining what is "traditional."

Perhaps the greatest determinant of what is considered "traditional" are the customs utilized in the training hall. I think the perception is that a traditional school will be more heavy on discipline, emphasize particular rituals (i.e. bowing when entering and leaving the dojang, saying "yes sir" and "no sir," etc.), and have slower progress through the ranks. I think that people often connect the above mentioned things with "the old ways" and, conversely, associate modern MA's with a more self-serving attitude and generally having a disregard for how things "used to be done."

Of course, how did things "used to be done" and when, exactly, were they done?

[bushido_man96]

Perhaps the greatest determinant of what is considered "traditional" are the customs utilized in the training hall. I think the perception is that a traditional school will be more heavy on discipline, emphasize particular rituals (i.e. bowing when entering and leaving the dojang, saying "yes sir" and "no sir," etc.), and have slower progress through the ranks. I think that people often connect the above mentioned things with "the old ways" and, conversely, associate modern MA's with a more self-serving attitude and generally having a disregard for how things "used to be done."

I think this situation brings up another good point. The section I placed in bold is what I want to discuss: these ideals tend to be most popular in Eastern Martial Arts; Karate, TKD, Tang Soo Do, Aikido, etc. So, my question is, can tradition only come from the East? We have Western traditions, so why can't a Martial Art that has Western traditions in it be considered a "traditional" art, as well?

Another point to bring up is how a tradition comes to be. Basically, it has to be a habit that becomes established over time. Therefore, how long does this habit have to be in place before you can determine that is a "tradition?"

I would say that you should add "Classical" to your list. IE from a karate / jujutsu perspective, the Koryu arts of Japan / Okinawa from which the traditional ways that we know of today were spawned.

I hadn't considered this, but it might be worth considering, if the MAs really need one more sub-division. Can you elaborate more as to what it would contain?