What is "Traditional?"

[KarateEd]

So, my question is, can tradition only come from the East? We have Western traditions, so why can't a Martial Art that has Western traditions in it be considered a "traditional" art, as well?

I think the perception among people, as a whole, is that western fighting styles are much newer in comparison to those originating in the ancient East and, therefore, do not have the same revered traditions. I think the long, rich history of China heavily influences this idea among the general population.

As we know, many martial arts are modern interpretations of old systems, if not completely new inventions themselves, and have no more tradition than boxing, wrestling, etc. Therefore, I would argue that Western arts can have as much tradition (and be subject to this same traditional/non-traditional debate) as Eastern arts.

[BlackTiger]

Traditional M/A is one in which the art has been passed down unchanged from generation to generation.

[bushido_man96]

Traditional M/A is one in which the art has been passed down unchanged from generation to generation.

How many of them can we really guarantee have gone totally unchanged for that amount of time?

[BDPulver]

I always looked at traditional as not being flashy (ie XMA). You worked for your belt like my school does. And you can trace the roots of your style.

[Kruczek]

Traditional M/A is one in which the art has been passed down unchanged from generation to generation.

How many of them can we really guarantee have gone totally unchanged for that amount of time?

That definition would make Shotokan a non-traditional style - which I think all would agree it is.

...you can trace the roots of your style.

Bingo

[BlackTiger]

It is impossible to guarantee anyone can keep any Style 100% unchanged. However if one has been fortunate to have learned from an authentic ancient teacher to keep this traditional is an honor. If this case one should do their best to do so.

[BlackTiger]

Shotokan is tradional. Perhaps you have misunderstood my words. No harm meant.

[bushido_man96]

....And you can trace the roots of your style.

I could start my own style tomorrow, and then teach it to someone else. That person could then trace his "roots."

So that should work, right?

[BDPulver]

In a matter of speaking...Yes bushido.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Toward the end of his life, Otsuka sensei was recorded as stating that Wado was not finished.

Not that he was suggesting that it was incomplete IMO, but rather it would be the students that trained within the system that would evolve and consequently the artform would develop with them.

This as very typical of the Japanese principle of "Shu-Ha-Ri" which are best explained as the stages of learning / progression / evolution, within a student and the system itself.

I wonder whether the late masters would have actually approved of us keeping things too traditional, or whether they would be somewhat cynical of groups that hang on to tradition for traditions sake.