Should young black belts instruct the adult class

[BDPulver]

Catching up on this. I'll start off at how my teacher brought me into teaching. I started Isshinryu at 14 (been studying ma when i was 10ish). At that time I went to class as much as I could. I wasnt your typical kid growing up so I think thats why I was more mature then most of the adults.

At around 16 I was promoted to brown (or more accurately 3rd since my sensei went backwards on brown kinda like a countdown 3,2,1 - shodan). When I got that he suggested I started coming to adult classes and after a few he let me teach kids classes only. I did this for probably about a year before he allowed me to help and I stress help teach adults.

Now during this time we had some programs going on with the local schools which I would go too and teach those for him if he couldnt make it. He was our athletic director of the high school so you can imagine how busy his schedule would be.

Pretty much doing all that and since I viewed that as my childhood (all I wanted was to graduate and get in the army) I was trying to mature to fast to impress him. I didnt realize this till I got out of the army, had a attitude bigger then my ego and started some, well you know.

I got in trouble by my sensei for this and it took awhile for him to trust me again. After I finally gained his trust back I moved to KY and have taught a few people here but mostly from word of mouth cause I'm too strict and old fashion.

Now to answer the question, under the right circumstances yes but to go through what I went through NO. They need to enjoy there childhood and not have any over burdens put on to them. I still believe that one should not gain a black belt till there 18 as this is a mark of achieving adult hood but 16 should be voted on by other adult black belts.

I've been through it and know the downfalls of it.

[Tiger1962]

8 years old - has to be a junior black belt. I mean, come on, can an 8 year old really meet black belt criteria?

The only thing I can guess is that he is in a belt school where you get a belt every other month just for showing up and the parents paying the belt test fees.

I used to work with this person so I feel that it might be a bit disrespectful or rude if I asked her "what kind of black belt does your child have"

I say "black belt" because that is what she told me. Perhaps its a McDojo kind of school, but I really don't know. All I know is the child is in the second grade, takes Tae Kwon Do and just received his black belt.

Go figure. *shrug*

[granitemiller]

I understand what your saying. This is the kind of thing that diminishes the value of earning a black belt.

[Roys15]

Im gonna rant for a minute, so please excuses my pigheadedness

I have argued this point in other discussions on this site, but adults gotta realize-kids ain't stoopid. While I agree that most u13's don't have the ability to teach class, many will surprise you. As aforementioned, maturity and ability should be determined on a case by case basis.

As for those that say a small person wouldn't be able to do throws and what not to larger people, are you min the right style? If I were learning or teaching such things I would want to be sure the technique worked on folks of all sizes. If you're training in a style that doesn't teach you how to take town bigger folks, well, you're dead.

And junior blackbelts? Really? Why junior ranks at all? Is this not the grandest form of watering down a style? Why not go ahead and hold kids to a higher standard? Adults hold kids to a higher standard all the time, now suddenly you want to hold a child down? At something this child presumably loves to do. For what reason?

If you hold children to a different, lower ranking system than adults, of course you'll never want to learn from them. If you hold kids below your level how can you expect ever to surpass anyone?

All that being said, I believe your instructor should at least be able to get them self to class. So the minimum age for a solo instructor should be sixteen(or drivers license age).

One cannot learn to teach unless given the chance.

[tallgeese]

We've beat up the issue here relitively recently in another thread so I won't spend a ton of time on it here.

You can't assume that weight and size don't matter. They do, they are a very real factor that effects plenty of perfectly good ma's. Judo, wrestling, boxing, mma, all have weight classes for a reason. Yes, they are sports, but they are combat dirivitive sports performed at full speed and contact, their findings should be considered relevant.

Junior black belts are often awarded because there are tool that adult black blets should have access to that children are simply not mature enough psycologically and judmentally to use. Hence, they shouldn't be routinely teaching adults with adult ranking. It's not about making a system weaker, it's about keeping combative arts pure and not watering them down while being able to recognize acheivement and skill of younger people.

I think that instructors should be cultiveated, but on a limited basis. Not regualarly teaching in front of adults.

[huntress]

Coming in conversation for first time here...

I'd say hell no. The 'junior black belts' that came from children's class to adults when my dojo decided to cut the kids class range up to 15 have only the kids' stuff.

They don't know half the stuff even me as a 2nd kyu brown belt (that started and learnt in the adult class) does. And that's just truth.

They'll have to learn a lot of skill and other material before gaining my respect, as color of belt don't impress me much.

[granitemiller]

That is an interesting point. If the adult members of the class don't think that the younger students have learned as much as they have, then this would be another contributing factor for the resentment and lack of respect given to a young BB trying to lead an adult class.

I have to admit and I am not very proud of this, but I felt this way myself towards the youth BB leading class when I was a kyu rank.

[Erin]

As a kyu belt (orange) I am not thoroughly versed in the issues with having jr. black belts on the floor. But this I know...we have 1 jr. bb. He's 13. And I love him to death. I completely respect him, and know that when he's giving me a pointer, correcting my stance, or judging me in a shiai, I can trust that's he's right . He's NEVER allowed on the floor to instruct alone, always with a Nidan or higher. Usually 2 or more.

Just my view on it I guess.

[Empty Hand]

In my system, kids cannot earn a Black Belt, because they are simply not mature enough to understand what a Black Belt really means, nor can they safely spar with the adults. My instructor uses a ranking system where juniors have 3 degrees of purple and then go to red. When they turn thirteen, they move into the adult class and start at adult white belt. Brown and Black belts are reserved for adults with a minimum age of 17 to earn a Black Belt. This means that people who start in the adult class at thirteen will earn their brown belt at about 15. They can then begin teaching as assistant instructors. Running a full class is reserved for 2nd or 3rd level Black Belts who are over 21 in almost every instance. This works well for the school I attend. It may seem harsh to some, but the kids and parents do not resent it. In truth, this allows people who start when they are little to become phenominal Black Belts when they finally reach the age limit, because they have years of expierience. If they were allowed to earn their Black Belt more quickly, they may get bored (or worse cocky) and leave, never reaching their full potential. There may be a few cases of younger people being exeptionally mature, but not enough to justify a policy of allowing kids to earn Black Belts. Those who do resent it, clearly are not mature enough to be a Black Belt, and the few who are mature will understand why kids should not be Black Belts.

[quinteros1963]

Teach no. Assist a lower ranked student yes. Although they may be much younger they are more experienced, so I don't mind the assistance of a higher ranked, younger person. They should not be left to intsruct an entire class.