Rank and its Meaning

[sensei8]

If we were to start teaching like they did traditionally we would have no students.

Sorry, but I do not subscribe to that belief; Business Marketing 101 does, but not I. Beating students, I don't believe in that either, if this is what you're referring to.

Edited December 22, 2008 by sensei8

[sensei8]

We had a 8 year old 3rd Dan BB

[Tiger1962]

We had a 8 year old 3rd Dan BB

I'm not surprised to read this. Someone I used to work with wrote to me and told me her 2nd grade son just became a black belt.

indeed !!!

[tori]

How does an 8 year old become a 3rd degree Black Belt. It took me longer than he has been alive to become a San Dan! Oh well, I wish I could say that this is not happening at my own school, but it is. Kids are ranking to Black Belt that are not deserving. However, those kids also leave after getting their Shodan rank. The ones who stick around are the white belts that never quit.

[tori]

Oh, we do not have any 8 year old 3rd degree black belts. Thank goodness.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Oh, we do not have any 8 year old 3rd degree black belts. Thank goodness.

Minimum age for third dan in my group is thirty.

I suppose grades mean different thing to different people/groups, but in traditional wado you would but hard pushed to get a "bonafide" sandan before you were thirty anyway.

[joesteph]

Minimum age for third dan in my group is thirty.

I suppose grades mean different thing to different people/groups, but in traditional wado you would but hard pushed to get a "bonafide" sandan before you were thirty anyway.

Do you think this will change as students start martial arts earlier, Michi? That there'll be too much time between promotions and the danger of losing students? Or do you find that in Wado there's a tendency for the students to be older (no younger than teenage years), so it's unlikely that it could change?

[Wa-No-Michi]

Minimum age for third dan in my group is thirty.

I suppose grades mean different thing to different people/groups, but in traditional wado you would but hard pushed to get a "bonafide" sandan before you were thirty anyway.

Do you think this will change as students start martial arts earlier, Michi? That there'll be too much time between promotions and the danger of losing students? Or do you find that in Wado there's a tendency for the students to be older (no younger than teenage years), so it's unlikely that it could change?

Well, in my group anyway, we do not (as a rule) take students under the age of seven years of age. Between 7 and 16 the kyu grade examinations are done in two stages per grade (or mon grades), and students have to have a minumum of 24 training sessions / a minimmof 3 month break between each examination.

In truth though, when you get to 3rd kyu in wado the technical requirements tend to be quite demanding and so therefore it is unlikely that even the most gifted student will travel between 3rd kyu and 1st dan in under 18 months - two years.

Although "Junior" shodans are awarded, these will not be considered as "senior" Shodan until the age of 16. You can not grade for Nidan until you are 21 and as I say sandan is reserved for 30+ mainly because of the additional katas / pair work that you are expected to become familiar with between these grades.

To be fair though, my group is not driven by gradings per se and there are many other things that keep the young guys focused including regular competitions and a diverse functional syllabus.

Maybe we do loose students as a result, but then we are not a commercial organisation and I think that maintaining good Wado is the key driver behind our reasoning. We do that pretty well imo.

[bushido_man96]

To be fair though, my group is not driven by gradings per se and there are many other things that keep the young guys focused including regular competitions and a diverse functional syllabus.

Maybe we do loose students as a result, but then we are not a commercial organisation and I think that maintaining good Wado is the key driver behind our reasoning. We do that pretty well imo.

I think that this is what is important; being able to motivate your students aside from rank promotions. That is how you get around joesteph's question here:

Do you think this will change as students start martial arts earlier, Michi? That there'll be too much time between promotions and the danger of losing students?

I think that this is part of the problem with the rank system. It is a good system to use for setting objectives and goals, because it is something that tends to be measureable. However, students get too caught up in attaining rank, as opposed to what it is they are learning through their rank.

I think that it is part of the responsibility of the instructors to help the students understand that rank isn't the end-all, be-all of the Martial Arts. Its what you learn, and what you know, and most important, what you take with you as a practitioner. That stuff can't be taken away.

[Kruczek]

I think a ranks meaning is in the name on the certificate. If Harvard gives you a diploma it is nothing more than a paper saying "Harvard has tested and believes such and such knows his/her stuff."

So if we take that concept and apply it to karate. Your certificate says "Such and such is qualified to be this rank by his instructor."

Now when I ask people and they say Sensei 2nd Dan made me a 1st Dan and he is also my cousin...I give it little to no meaning. I tested for my 1st Dan in front of a panel including a 9th Degree, but again, my belt only means that my 9th Degree instructor believes I should be a black belt. If his word meant nothing than that belt would mean nothing as well.

That is my thoughts - Your rank, alone, is only as good as the sensei who gave it to you.