Blackbelts

[tallgeese]

Sure, but there are plenty of arts out there that aren't "traditional" in their mold. And their puropses are pretty well defined and have plenty of purpose behind them.

It's simply a different approach, certainly no less valid.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Sure, but there are plenty of arts out there that aren't "traditional" in their mold. And their puropses are pretty well defined and have plenty of purpose behind them.

It's simply a different approach, certainly no less valid.

Agreed, but we are talking about a qualification within traditional karate aren't we? Of course this is not the only way to measure this, but its the way it tends to be done in Trad Karate Circles.

Otherwise, why don't we just have a wrestle off?

[tallgeese]

Not necissarily. The black belt rank holds meaning both in trad circles and non-trad ones. It's a measure of something in both.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Not necissarily. The black belt rank holds meaning both in trad circles and non-trad ones. It's a measure of something in both.

Personally therefore, I cant see the value in hanging on to traditions such as "Belt" rankings if your art is not traditional.

Or do you guys wanna have your cake and eat it as well.lol

[tallgeese]

Pretty much, yeah

It is nice to have some sort of reference point on a student's development. It's also nice to have some connection to the root of what we're doing.

It's not about abandoning everything that came before. It's a matter of streamlining it into the most efficient method possible. Some touchstone of where the orgin isn't bad. Hence, the use of belts as a referance point, even if we rarely wear them.

Even at that I don't rank everyone I train or train with. There are guys that just do mma stuff with me. That's their thing, they have no interest in combatives beyond that. Therefore, I don't rank them. The ones who want the complete system, they're the ones who get ranked. So far, this has worked out fine for all parites invovlved.

[bushido_man96]

In SD /UFC etc., but if you want to study a trad ma you should do it the trad ma way imo (don't matter of you (tg) think its right or wrong).

Bunkai is a process that you can only understand if you understand kata.

Otherwise everything you are doing is "waza" technique, which is empty without true movement/purpose.

If "Bunkai" is to be described as soley interpretations that relate to the breakdown/application of kata movements, then I guess it is a sole component of Karate.

However, I think its possible to train with applications in scenarios, without the template of a kata/form being present. I think this is what tallgeese is referring to. Perhaps it isn't Karate, but it is Martial Art. So, at some point, we're just splitting hairs. You can still achieve the same goals, but by taking different paths.

[bushido_man96]

Not necissarily. The black belt rank holds meaning both in trad circles and non-trad ones. It's a measure of something in both.

Personally therefore, I cant see the value in hanging on to traditions such as "Belt" rankings if your art is not traditional.

Or do you guys wanna have your cake and eat it as well.lol

What does it matter if an art is "traditional" or not? As long as it is effective, I feel that is the main measuring point.

Ooh, ooh, I just got an idea for another thread.....

[bushido_man96]

Botching a Kata, ie getting two moves into and forgetting it, is an instant fail in my group. Even if you restart it 30 seconds later and do it 100% you will still fail.

I can see where this does have merit in tests, especially when a black belt is expected to be able to recall curriculum in a class for any lower ranked student that might be asking for help. A black belt will appear more professional if he doesn't have to ask someone else to help him help someone remember a form.

[NightOwl]

I think this can really depend on the style, and many times on what individual schools are looking for. Personally though I would look for a comprehensive knowledge of the curriculum and the ability to effectively utilize such knowledge in an applied setting.

[Wa-No-Michi]

However, I think its possible to train with applications in scenarios, without the template of a kata/form being present. I think this is what tallgeese is referring to. Perhaps it isn't Karate, but it is Martial Art. So, at some point, we're just splitting hairs. You can still achieve the same goals, but by taking different paths.

Agreed.