Need advice. Have things changed that much?

[Wa-No-Michi]

...However, relaxed and disrespectful are not necessarily the same thing.

You got that right.

[joesteph]

[R]elaxed and disrespectful are not necessarily the same thing.

Very true. And one might be "respectfully relaxed" with one's instructor, even if admitting something had gone awry.

I remember working with a partner on certain self-defense techniques, but we did something wrong and fell behind. When our instructor came over to check on us, in a "loud whisper" I said to him, "Don't let her know we messed up and had to start all over," to which he, in a similar "loud whisper," replied, "Okay, I won't say anything."

It was a gentle humor way of letting her know what had happened, and that we were back on track. She never said anything, likely content to let us fix things ourselves, which was our job to do anyway. You can only do this if you have a positive climate in the training hall.

[ps1]

Short answer is, in my opinion, yes, things have changed that much. Unfortunately.

I tend to be in agreement with this statement. It doesn't pertain to all schools. But certainly the majority.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Short answer is, in my opinion, yes, things have changed that much. Unfortunately.

I tend to be in agreement with this statement. It doesn't pertain to all schools. But certainly the majority.

With respect ps1, I don't think you can make that statement if you haven't trained in, or had experience with "the majority of schools". Your statement (like JohnC's) is therefore anecdotal, based on your own experiences.

[JohnC]

Forgive me for quoting personal experience, as it's the only kind I have.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Forgive me for quoting personal experience, as it's the only kind I have.

Agreed, but therefore it doesn't necessarily apply to the "majority of schools". Unless of course you have trained with over half of the martial arts schools around the entire world.

[Rateh]

I have trained in...7 martial arts schools in the last 11.5 years. I have found them all to be disciplined, with push-ups given when necessary. It has always been very clear what is expected of the students so far as classroom behavior is concerned. I have seen adults given push-ups a couple of times, these were 20 something males who thought the rules didn't necessarily apply to them. I haven't seen any other adults given push-ups unless the entire class or group was given them.

[tori]

If you ask alot of people why they have started in Martial Arts, you are going to get alot of different answers ranging from , I was looking for self defense, to I wanted to lose some weight. Now ask parents why they put their kids in classes and you are going to get, I wanted them to learn discipline, self control, and respect.

People come to Martial Arts schools looking for all of the above mentioned. How an instructor handles his/her students should be respected no matter what their approach is and each school is going to do things differently.

Arguing about how it should be is silly. We all have our own opinions. Usually we are going to side with how our own instructors handle their classes. I personally started back in classes because I missed it and because I have a bit of an anger problem. I was specifically looking for the discipline and self control. Had I joined a program that didn't demand discipline and respect, I would have left.

Not everyone shares my opinion. Those individuals have left our program. They can go to the club down the road where they address all the instructors by their first name and allow anyone from any style to come in and wear their black belts, even if the styles are vastly different from what they are teaching. If you didn't catch the sarcasm there, I wasn't trying hard enough.

[JohnC]

WNM

Do ya nae ken the idea of sampling? (And I'm going to let this one drop here. )

[Wa-No-Michi]

If you ask alot of people why they have started in Martial Arts, you are going to get alot of different answers ranging from , I was looking for self defense, to I wanted to lose some weight. Now ask parents why they put their kids in classes and you are going to get, I wanted them to learn discipline, self control, and respect.

People come to Martial Arts schools looking for all of the above mentioned. How an instructor handles his/her students should be respected no matter what their approach is and each school is going to do things differently.

Arguing about how it should be is silly. We all have our own opinions. Usually we are going to side with how our own instructors handle their classes. I personally started back in classes because I missed it and because I have a bit of an anger problem. I was specifically looking for the discipline and self control. Had I joined a program that didn't demand discipline and respect, I would have left.

Not everyone shares my opinion. Those individuals have left our program. They can go to the club down the road where they address all the instructors by their first name and allow anyone from any style to come in and wear their black belts, even if the styles are vastly different from what they are teaching. If you didn't catch the sarcasm there, I wasn't trying hard enough.

Don't worry Tori, we are all good friends at the end of the day. We're enjoying a good discussion.

Picking up on you latter comments thought (even if slightly tongue in cheek), there is no correlation between technical standard / ability and how strict / disciplined your school is. If a club chooses to let people come in from other styles and wear their BB thats their look out. Not my cup of tea, but each to their own.

Do ya nae ken the idea of sampling? (And I'm going to let this one drop here. )

Sampling is fine John, but doesn't provide quantifiable proof that in fact the "Majority" of martial arts clubs have changed. The ones you have experienced may have, but I would say changed from what anyway, a model that was in the most part developed in the early parts of the twentieth century which differed to how it was years before? So I guess change is eternal.