Ki Chi or what ever

[fujau]

Right I am going to stick my neck out here but here goes

Does taekwondo facilitate any internal energy like in japan the Ki or chi in chinese martial arts

All i have seen is all external not having a pop, again just interested I have never heard of TKD do any development in that part apart from shouting for the sake of shouting. I know karate has sanchin and since tkd was developed from karate did it pass it way through.

many thanks for your comments

[Truestar]

If by shouting you are referring to the 'kiai', then I've always been taught it was an adrenaline dump and added tool against an opponent.

Our school uses breath holds and meditation, but merely as a way of relaxing and gaining control, not focusing any energy in the sense you're speaking of.

I'd wait for some more answers as other TKD schools may operate differently.

[DWx]

It depends on the school but as far as I know its not something that is overly stressed. In ITF style the kiai is not really used (or trained) however I don't know about other systems. We kiai at my uni club and it sooo weird for me as I've never really done it before. My shouting is weak and pathetic, it just seems really strange and I actually forget to do it most of the time.

[bushido_man96]

There are some instructors out there that do. Some of the books I have stress it. Richard Chun stressed it. However, none of the schools I have been a part of have. Its not really my cup of tea, so the lack of it doesn't bother me that much.

[joesteph]

In my art, Soo Bahk Do, which is a Korean art related to TKD, the first of the Eight Key Concepts is called "Yon Gi"--with "gi" the same as "ki" (or even "chi"), and the translation being "Brave Energy," AKA "courage."

The "kihap" (the Korean "kiai") is an "energy shout," with expectations from startling an opponent to releasing your own energy. It's considered an aid in striking, but also, when doing hyungs, there are two at certain points in the five that I've studied, and there is a release of tension for the body, as my instructor's teacher informed me. What's interesting is that we actually do pause for an extra second at these kihap points; we don't race through them, the shout at the strike coming up from the diaphragm and the pause feeling natural, like a tension break.

[fujau]

@ Truestar

Interesting how you call it a adrenaline dump. I have used the same but not for your opponent We do it where we are relaxed and wait for the sharp bang on noise to startle you in to flight or fight. I am not to sure why you want to adrenaline dump someone else. Or does the shout focus your intent somehow they shout for the sake of shouting but not showing intent sorry it is only what I have seen.

@bushido_man96

Intresting book where it says it incorporates flowing circular patterns of kung fu and the abrupt linear movements of Karate.

There must be more in the forms that for the sake of doing the forms

look at Chonkwon this looks more like a northern chinese form with some flavors of hakka style kung fu like the Phoenix eye punch and hung gar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9aF7ZqI04s&feature=related

ie look at Ilyeo the shape of why the forms are made I have spoken to a 7th dan in tkd and are a bit lost on some of the movements now I know it is down to the instructor but surly the length of time you train and grade you hold must allow you go deeper in to the martial arts. and forms

Although TKD is fairly new but surly like any majority of Traditional Martial arts you start of hard and higher you go you go internal

again not trying to poke the bear in the zoo but

I am interested in Martial arts and the applications and there traditional thoughts why the forms were designed and what was the intent.

[Truestar]

I think when I say adrenaline dump I may be misleading, but I'm not entirely sure.

Generally speaking adrenaline focuses the mind and often loses the reality of itself, but when I think of the kiai I think of more adrenaline, which you would think in turn loses yourself more, but I think it brings you back to a state of control.

I have no idea if I made sense or not.

[fujau]

I think when I say adrenaline dump I may be misleading, but I'm not entirely sure.

Generally speaking adrenaline focuses the mind and often loses the reality of itself, but when I think of the kiai I think of more adrenaline, which you would think in turn loses yourself more, but I think it brings you back to a state of control.

I have no idea if I made sense or not.

Adrenaline Dump in the way I have been taught is where adrenal grands produce the hormone which allows you to fight or run.

To train for this type of exercise to much can cause problems as you can exhaust the gland to much and then will take a long time for it to recover..

The way to train is stand relaxed hands by your side and wait for for a loud bang, made by another person often using to focused mitts together. When the bang goes off you should jump but trying to lift your arms up in the air and body jumps on the balls of the feet then relax again and wait for the next bang. It looks comical from the outsider but you training your adrenal gland to function when you want it to this is what is called Adrenaline Dumping This principle allows you to use one of the chinese gings startle.

If you can train it right the same effect of the sudden fright you can feel your heart pounding ready for action but in a controlled manor Everybody know the feeling when they get that sudden fright palms are sweaty and you are ready to go.

I think the word Adrenaline as you call it focuses the mind is more showing intent trying to rough someone up. When I fight i can play still hitting hard but when I want to be serious my body language changes my eyes become emotionless which generally intimidates the person that i mean business

but in saying that once you have trained the way i have explained you can train the mind to use one word that can translate for your body to fight or run

Like i said if overuse your adrenaline gland to much there will be health issues involved So i think the want you mean is showing intent which will focus the mind in turn

[bushido_man96]

When it comes to using adrenaline, there is really only so much you can use. The body doesn't have a controlled release of adrenaline. That's why its called a "dump." It dumps, and then it is done. Now, being able to control what startles you, and delay the dump, is a trainable thing. But not how much adrenaline your body uses at a time, I believe.

As for Chinese/Japanese influences on TKD; yes, they are there. But, not everyone in the MAs are zen masters, and so it is with TKD. I don't worry about the internal so much.

[Truestar]

I guess I need to think more before I speak!

I think my use of the term adrenaline dump was misused, however my previous description is what I think is still going on, just not through the use of adrenaline. Doh!

fujau, I never thought about exercising myself that way. Several times as I walk home from school friends often honk at me, I tend to startle slightly and jerk a little rather than being calm. I'll definitely mention an exercise like this to my instructor. I'll just half to study the effects of adrenaline on the body before we dive right in.