Is it inappropriate to question how a grading was conducted?

[Ozpunker]

I had a grading on the weekend and received my orange belt. I was dissapointed when I didn't receive tips to go with it especially because I felt I really deserved them. I soon found out that no one in my group of fellow new orange belts had received tips either. I found this odd because during our training we under the impression that we were one of the best groups to go through together.

I question if we were graded properly. It was the biggest grading in our club's history with over 100 people involved and certain parts seemed to be run sloppy. The majority of the orange belt grading was focused on the use of elbows and knees... particularly in self defense (80% of attacks had to be elbows/knees). When it came to the self defense part of the grading were directed by a black belt from another dojo who got us to line up where we were told to demonstrate 2 foot sweeps each on the person next to us. Following that we had to form a circle where one person stood in the middle and got attacked from various angles (We were told specifically that at our level we were only graded on SD from front and back attacks). Once again we only got to demonstrate 2 takedowns each which didn't allow us to show the skills required, especially for the guys who got 'attacked' from angles that don't easily allow counter attacks with elbows or knees. Our yellow belt grading required us to demonstrate more SD!

Tomorrow when I go back to class I want to see the head instructor and ask him to review how the grading was conducted. I don't want anything that I don't deserve and I'm more than glad to re-demonstrate parts of the grading requirements to show that I am deserving of what I expected to get. If it was only myself who failed to receive the extra marks, I wouldn't be doubting what happened. It's only because out of quite a few guys not one of us obtained the extra recognition which I feel like at least some deserved.

Please tell me if I'm out of line or if I may be justified in asking someone to review what happened. Thank you.

[tallgeese]

Probibly asking for a review of how thigs were determined isn't bad, as long as it's approached in a tactful manner.

Anytime there are a large number of participants at these things with instructors from various school working on the board things can get a bit messy. Chances are alot of lessons were learned at all levels from this and subsequent events should continue to improve.

[joesteph]

Before my last testing, while making out the necessary form, I was also able to see the testing form the examining judge uses. It's fairly comprehensive.

There was nothing I was told to work on afterwards by my instructor that I didn't know already was weak and needed more emphasis. Yours is more of a gray area, Ozpunker, that, despite promotion, the results are unclear to you. If there's a question about the testing, it's really asking "Where do I need improvement?" and/or "Where am I strong? Where am I weak?"

Presenting your concerns in a diplomatic way like this might give you answers without any semblance of inappropriateness.

[JohnC]

I'd offer that your instructors know what they're looking for in the test. As Tallgeese points out, trying to get through a lot of students in a reasonable period of time always forces choices and things tend to get messy.

I'd offer that you might want to initially phrase the discussion around where your areas of improvement are (forward looking) and what you need to do to get better. The answer will probably give you what you were graded down on (backward looking) without ever really having to directly bring it up. If it doesn't then you can easily ask more direct / pointed questions.

In any case it's probably bad form to question / criticize how the testing was performed as there's probably several factors that caused it that, as a student, you wouldn't be privy to (leading to the 'you think you can do better?' scenario ) Depending on the answers you get above, if you feel that things weren't done appropriately, you would at least have specifics to address rather than the more general ideas you posted.

My two cents.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Just so I understand you post ozpunker, when you say "tips" with your grading, are you talking about remarks from the examiner, or endorsement marks on your belt (IE orange with one stripe).

Eitherway, you are entitled to feed back but as the other guys hav pointed out you need to do this respectfully.

[Tiger1962]

I had a grading on the weekend and received my orange belt. I was dissapointed when I didn't receive tips to go with it especially because I felt I really deserved them. I soon found out that no one in my group of fellow new orange belts had received tips either. I found this odd because during our training we under the impression that we were one of the best groups to go through together.

I question if we were graded properly. It was the biggest grading in our club's history with over 100 people involved and certain parts seemed to be run sloppy. The majority of the orange belt grading was focused on the use of elbows and knees... particularly in self defense (80% of attacks had to be elbows/knees). When it came to the self defense part of the grading were directed by a black belt from another dojo who got us to line up where we were told to demonstrate 2 foot sweeps each on the person next to us. Following that we had to form a circle where one person stood in the middle and got attacked from various angles (We were told specifically that at our level we were only graded on SD from front and back attacks). Once again we only got to demonstrate 2 takedowns each which didn't allow us to show the skills required, especially for the guys who got 'attacked' from angles that don't easily allow counter attacks with elbows or knees. Our yellow belt grading required us to demonstrate more SD!

Tomorrow when I go back to class I want to see the head instructor and ask him to review how the grading was conducted. I don't want anything that I don't deserve and I'm more than glad to re-demonstrate parts of the grading requirements to show that I am deserving of what I expected to get. If it was only myself who failed to receive the extra marks, I wouldn't be doubting what happened. It's only because out of quite a few guys not one of us obtained the extra recognition which I feel like at least some deserved.

Please tell me if I'm out of line or if I may be justified in asking someone to review what happened. Thank you.

I don't think you would be out of line to ask - in fact, asking indicates that you show interest and are being proactive. Just ask in an appropriate manner is what I would advise. You know the old saying - it's not what you say but how you say it? I would not anticipate a problem if you followed good judgment and respect.

[tori]

Firstly, it must be nearly impossible to get through a 100 + person grading and scrutinize over every movement made by each individual.

Secondly, you mentioned that it was not your instructor conducting the test. So does that mean the BB in charge of the grading doesn't really know you very well. If your instructor was confident that you were ready to rank, then you were ready. Approaching a head instructor with negative criticsm is never a good idea. Instead, approach with a "what can I do to improve" manner.

I am sorry if I misunderstand what tips mean. I was under assumption at first that it was goals or ideas to improve, but am now wondering if it is stripes at the end of your belt.

Keep your head up. Your future tests are going to demand more and be harder.

[KarateEd]

At my school we always have a feedback session a few days after a test, though we never have large groups testing. I do think your instructor should give you feedback on your performance. Just as the others have said, be diplomatic in how you phrase/ask the question (I like joesteph's way of putting it - "where do I need improvement?").

[Ozpunker]

Thanks for your advice guys. and for the record, the tips I was referring to are stripes on the end of the belt.

[Rateh]

It might just be because it was someone not from your school that tested you. Just because two schools are from the same organization, close enough to combine colorbelt testings, does not mean that all the instructors from both schools have the same philosophies, or the same opinions on exactly what specific ranks should be able to demonstrate. Unless there is written requirements on what you need to be tested on, variation would occure. The more schools, the more variations. Another possibility is that the black belt testing you is still new(ish) to testing students. They may have been unaware that you were not ment to be attacked by any direction but forward and backward. I'm sure that whoever was running the testing (the head conductor/judge) is aware that something went on, and is working to correct that. Testings are a learning process for everyone.

I do think that approaching it tactfully would be wise. I also think that good instructors want to know how testings ran from the other side of the fence. In other words if you found the testing confusing in the way it was run, tactfully saying that I think would be benifitial. That way whoever is running things can improve it.