RBSD a strategy?

[bushido_man96]

OK, along the same lines of the Is MMA a strategy? thread, do you feel that RBSD is a strategy, or a style all its own?

[tallgeese]

I think neither.

It's a goal or a concept. It's what many different systems strive and train for but each have different approaches or stragegies. I think that it's training is probibly marked by higher levels of simulatin training and contact oriented "live" methods but it's still not codified as a specific system.

[bushido_man96]

Although I see your point about it being a concept, I do think that it can be a representative style, much like arts like Krav Maga or Systema have become. But on the other hand, you have guys like Hockheim who tend to teach more of the concepts, and you can take it no matter what style you do.

[cross]

For me RBSD is a bridge from the first moments of a confrontation, to your martial arts skillset. So id say its more-so a strategy than a style.

[joesteph]

I think neither.

It's a goal or a concept.

. . . it's still not codified as a specific system.

For me RBSD is a bridge . . . to your martial arts skillset. So id say its more-so a strategy than a style.

I do think that it can be a representative style, much like arts like Krav Maga or Systema have become. But on the other hand, you have guys like Hockheim who tend to teach more of the concepts . . .

I don't think RBSD is a codified system, so I'm leaning towards strategy based on martial arts skills, no matter what the source(s). It may even depend on the instructor, who sees concepts to be conveyed, likely because s/he is familiar with the concepts from the arts the RBSD techniques being taught originate from.

Chin Na is a non-codified system of many grabs and joint-locks, which other martial arts have incorporated; RBSD seems to be an incorporator from codified systems, in a manner that I'd still call strategy until (if ever) it becomes codified--meaning that it would stand independently, identifiably.

[JohnC]

Hmmmm. What makes a 'codified' system? RBSD has had books written about it. There are advertised RBSD schools that profess to have curricula. Not fussing just interested in the terminology.

Whatever the answer it would have to be retroactively applicable. For example, is Krav Maga a codified system? If so, when exactly did that happen and how did one know? How about Shotokan?

Interesting concept.

[bushido_man96]

Hmmmm. What makes a 'codified' system? RBSD has had books written about it. There are advertised RBSD schools that profess to have curricula. Not fussing just interested in the terminology.

Whatever the answer it would have to be retroactively applicable. For example, is Krav Maga a codified system? If so, when exactly did that happen and how did one know? How about Shotokan?

Interesting concept.

This brings up a good point about the strategy/style comparison. If someone has no prior MA training, and takes up learning what we would call in the law enforcement pedagogy Defensive Tactics, which would likely consist of a bunch of RBSD training, then wouldn't they be a Martial Artist, with RBSD as their style?

Now, on the other hand, as a Martial Artist with the bulk of my experience being in TKD, I can see how bringing in RBSD skills to augment my training would make it more of a strategy.

Perhaps it can be both?

[joesteph]

Hmmmm. What makes a 'codified' system? RBSD has had books written about it. There are advertised RBSD schools that profess to have curricula. Not fussing just interested in the terminology.

If someone has no prior MA training, and takes up learning what we would call in the law enforcement pedagogy Defensive Tactics, which would likely consist of a bunch of RBSD training, then wouldn't they be a Martial Artist, with RBSD as their style?

Now, on the other hand, as a Martial Artist with the bulk of my experience being in TKD, I can see how bringing in RBSD skills to augment my training would make it more of a strategy.

Looking at Brian's first reference, to the Defensive Tactics for law enforcement, it appears "individualized" that RBSD is that person's "style." The question that remains, though, is if it is a style in its own right. Suppose, for the second reference, with me altering it (sorry Brian; necessary evil) so that TKD is the person's only MA experience, and I replace RBSD with "Judo" in this second reference, I don't believe that Judo would be considered a strategy; it's already recognized as an art or style in its own right.

Looking back at John asking about "codified," I had said when I used it that "it stands independently, identifiably," and for "code" at Merriam-Webster, the first two definitions say:

1: a systematic statement of a body of law; especially: one given statutory force

2: a system of principles or rules code>

If there's no code, it isn't more than an assemblage of knowledge without organization; it's highly useful knowledge, but not systemitized. To me, this applies to RBSD.

I believe that RBSD takes from many and applies itself well, but is no more unified than that Chin Na gives to many and is applied well. As Chin Na is a compilation of grabbing and locking techniques, so RBSD, in its present state, is a compilation of excellent techniques used strategically.

I wonder if RBSD isn't simply a practical approach, a reflection of our times, in need of a Grandmaster?

[MMA_Jim]

I'll agree with Tallgeese on this one- MMA and RBSD are (obviously) similar, but have different goals.

The goal of MMA is to achieve absolute victory over your opponent.

The goal of Self Defense is to get away from the situation without regard for you opponent- that is to say, injuring or otherwise "defeating" your attacker is not neccessary to achieve what would be considered a victory.

So, simply put- Self Defense is pretty much the very basics of what MMA is used simply to try to survive a situation. Any space or opening is all thats needed for you to escape the situation and survive.

MMA is about completely dominating and ultimately defeating your opponent. If your opponent tries to avoid the fight and be defensive, you need to use your skills to find an opening, setup attacking opportunities, and find a way to submit or ko your opponent.

If in a self defense situation your attacker does the same thing, you simply take advantage of the situation and run away.

So, ironically, MMA is RBSD taken to the next level

[joesteph]

So, simply put- Self Defense is pretty much the very basics of what MMA is used simply to try to survive a situation. Any space or opening is all thats needed for you to escape the situation and survive. . . .

So, ironically, MMA is RBSD taken to the next level

I was wondering, Jim, if where you've said "MMA" in the first paragraph quoted could also have "RBSD" in there, instead, and still be what you're saying. Would they be interchangeable and still communicate your message?