poison hand strikes

[joesteph]

The leopard paw strike to the throat could possibly kill a person if done to the throat. Wouldn't it be possible to crush the lyrnyx with this strike causing them not to breath?

Personally, I believe it's a combination of the amount of power you can generate, along with the fact that the force is on a smaller area, exactly where the finger joint-knuckles strike. "X" amount of force striking area "Y" is much more "piercing" if concentrated on a small area, rather than a larger one (spread out).

It also depends, as far as I can see, on how the throat is struck. Check out the following women's self-defense video (by Mallory Senne, who also does Aikido) on striking the throat:

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/120270_self-defense-throat-strikes.htm

The throat has a stronger area up front than the weaker areas on both sides, as she points out. (The nose is the same and is addressed in a different video--on how to break it.)

For any striking of an adversary, the appropriate amount of force is to be used. The situation I referred to in my posting, above, from a presentation by GM Son, would be against a muscular individual that I wouldn't chance getting his hands on me. I could, of course, hit him as hard as possible with exactly the strike we're discussing, and while he chokes--but doesn't die--I get out of there, pronto! I've never made it a secret that I believe in hit, likely run, and definitely call the police.

I think it's right and proper that you're concerned about taking life, Sil Lum; it has to be that there was no other way, especially if you're protecting others as well as yourself.

[bushido_man96]

The leopard paw strike to the throat could possibly kill a person if done to the throat. Wouldn't it be possible to crush the lyrnyx with this strike causing them not to breath?

I think that there is a misgiving about how easy the throat is to strike. Unless you are fighting a guy who likes to thrust his head forward and his chin out in the "give my your best shot pose" for the entire confrontation, then striking the throat straight on is not as easy as it would appear. More than likely, if the guy you are being attacked by is a good/experienced fighter, then he is probably pretty good about keeping his hands up and his chin tucked during combat. A tucked chin is going to be tough to get to, and the hands up will make it tougher to get to the sides of the neck, along with the shoulders being rolled up.

Now, I'm not saying that one should not practice such techniques, because they can be useful. I just would be warry about the "I'll strike them in the throat" mentality, and assume the confrontation ends there.

[fujau]

The leopard paw strike to the throat could possibly kill a person if done to the throat. Wouldn't it be possible to crush the lyrnyx with this strike causing them not to breath?

The throat is a vulnerable area to the average joe and I have seen some self defense techniques is probably more dangerous to them selves and quite frankly wont stack up in a live defense situation.

What i think is key is having the versatility to adapt. ie if you strike the forehead say with a palm strike then leaves the throat wide open. It all comes to try and make the opening. sticky hands is a good training aid for this it allows flexibility in opening targets and closing target.

As in anything in life there are more ways to skin a cat.

[joesteph]

I think that there is a misgiving about how easy the throat is to strike. . . . triking the throat straight on is not as easy as it would appear. . . .

 

Now, I'm not saying that one should not practice such techniques, because they can be useful.

 

What i think is key is having the versatility to adapt. ie if you strike the forehead say with a palm strike then leaves the throat wide open. It all comes to try and make the opening.

 

These are on-target observations. A throat strike implies that the opening is there to execute it and, of course, a fight is not necessarily a one-shot deal to defend yourself against an attacker.

 

[ShoriKid]

A lot of the strikes are situational and require a lot of hand conditioning that most people aren't willing to undergo.

Tallgeese, the strike made with the back of the wrist I've always heard called the "ox jaw". Cranes Beak is make, if I understand it correctly, with the tips of all the fingers gathered in a bunch. Imagin trying to pick up a BB with the tips of all of your fingers and that cluster is what your striking with.

The spear hand I've used to push in on soft tissue more than strike. Fingers stacked and you can put a lot of preasure into the neck, grion, dig under the ribs etc. For striking....too much conditioning for my tastes. I've seen breaks down with finger tips, but I don't want to try them.

The strikes mentioned can be trained and may come in useful to increase flexibility of striking. I don't think most of them are more damaging than a punch or a knife hand/palm heel. However, when your in close and trapping or doing standing grappling, you might be out of position to punch and something like the ox jaw or a pushing spear hand into and behind the collar bone can come in handy.

[joesteph]

Tallgeese, the strike made with the back of the wrist I've always heard called the "ox jaw".

I remember being shown this by a friend in the past, used for infighting, but he had no name for it other than the reference to Taiji's "Single Whip."

Cranes Beak is make, if I understand it correctly, with the tips of all the fingers gathered in a bunch. Imagin trying to pick up a BB with the tips of all of your fingers and that cluster is what your striking with.

This is what I was shown as what you referred to as "ox jaw," ShoriKid, but on the opposite side--fingers as weapons. The practice we did with it was to poke at one eye, which was practiced by aiming for pennies taped to the wall. When held a certain way, it looks like a bird's head, and a flexibility in the wrist can rapidly "peck" at the target--the eye.

The spear hand I've used to push in on soft tissue more than strike. . . .

For striking....too much conditioning for my tastes.

I have to learn this as a strike against the solar plexus, the hand held vertically, but I don't care for it. I'd rather use it at a 30-45 degrees angle against an eye or the jugular notch. I do remember using it some years ago for non-contact sparring as a vertical hand that passed between the hands guarding the face, but presently I found out that spear hands aren't permitted, the chance of poking someone in the eye being too high.

[W]hen your in close and trapping or doing standing grappling, you might be out of position to punch and something like the ox jaw or a pushing spear hand into and behind the collar bone can come in handy.

You make a good point. Would "behind the collar bone" be called a Tiger's Claw, ShoriKid? I practice hooking my fingers into BOB's collar bone, one side, then the other, and pulling down hard.

[Fu Man]

A lot of the strikes are situational and require a lot of hand conditioning that most people aren't willing to undergo.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

Conditioning the hands, and performing the techniques at the right opportunity are critical or else the martial artist can seriously cause damage to himself or herself.

[ShoriKid]

Joesteph

I have to learn this as a strike against the solar plexus, the hand held vertically, but I don't care for it. I'd rather use it at a 30-45 degrees angle against an eye or the jugular notch. I do remember using it some years ago for non-contact sparring as a vertical hand that passed between the hands guarding the face, but presently I found out that spear hands aren't permitted, the chance of poking someone in the eye being too high.

Presses against the throat work well too. Again, they are hard things to push with instead of hitting in most cases. I've used them in the clinch when doing free sparing. And we've all used some of them during technique work.

You make a good point. Would "behind the collar bone" be called a Tiger's Claw, ShoriKid? I practice hooking my fingers into BOB's collar bone, one side, then the other, and pulling down hard.

I usually angle in and then hook down. So, it starts as a spear and then turns into a hook or a claw. Tiger claw type attacks are more for hooking and gripping "meat". A bicept, a tricept or the neck. Something like that where your getting a handle on things.

Fu Man

Conditioning the hands, and performing the techniques at the right opportunity are critical or else the martial artist can seriously cause damage to himself or herself.

With the time and dedication of the casual martial artist, these are bad choices for strikes to use. If you are working hard and want to add the more exotic strikes to your bag of tricks, you have to work at them. My advice would be pick one or two you like and can see the most use out of with your style(both personal and trained). Then condition the tools and practice with them in application. Not looking to employ them as primary weapons, but where you can fit them in as an addition to what you were already doing.

[fujau]

Joesteph

You make a good point. Would "behind the collar bone" be called a Tiger's Claw, ShoriKid? I practice hooking my fingers into BOB's collar bone, one side, then the other, and pulling down hard.

I usually angle in and then hook down. So, it starts as a spear and then turns into a hook or a claw. Tiger claw type attacks are more for hooking and gripping "meat". A bicept, a tricept or the neck. Something like that where your getting a handle on things.

In chinese martial arts the dragon was used more to seize hook and control where as the tiger was to palm and then reap very much away a cat uses its claws to strike then reap with the claws Is this the same in japenese arts

[joesteph]

You make a good point. Would "behind the collar bone" be called a Tiger's Claw, ShoriKid? I practice hooking my fingers into BOB's collar bone, one side, then the other, and pulling down hard.

I usually angle in and then hook down. So, it starts as a spear and then turns into a hook or a claw. Tiger claw type attacks are more for hooking and gripping "meat". A bicept, a tricept or the neck. Something like that where your getting a handle on things.

In chinese martial arts the dragon was used more to seize hook and control . . .

So would the strike I've been practicing be more of a dragon's claw than what I'd thought, a Tiger's claw, Fujau?