When a student is not all that they appear to be

[joesteph]

Or she could just have had an instructor that had a Japanese background and preferred to use that terminology.

When I studied TKD years ago, our instructors were known as "Sensei," and Japanese terms such as kata and dojo were also used. More recently, I ran into a friend who's a second dan in that same TKD system, that of Grandmaster Son (whose book from 1968 uses only English terms). She referred to her present Sensei, and I asked her about other Japanese terms being used in a Korean system. Her response is that they're taught that karate came from the Japanese, so those terms are used.

Then again, it could be that the young woman we're discussing is simply very much into the martial arts and spends free time reading, on the Internet, etc., where she's picked up a great deal.

She's a mystery wrapped in a riddle.

[tori]

I believe it was said that she did try another school before coming to this current one. She was treated poorly by the class and instructor. So in all honesty, she probably did "dabble" in Karate. Counting in Japanese is not a hard thing to learn. Pretty sure I picked that up by my 4th class. I am not sure what the issue is. She was protecting herself from being treated poorly by students/instructors until she could trust the new dojo and its participants with her information. She just wants to be treated fairly and like everyone else. Lots of people come to dojo's with previous experience. It isn't a crime. It's Karate.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I believe it was said that she did try another school before coming to this current one. She was treated poorly by the class and instructor. So in all honesty, she probably did "dabble" in Karate. Counting in Japanese is not a hard thing to learn. Pretty sure I picked that up by my 4th class. I am not sure what the issue is. She was protecting herself from being treated poorly by students/instructors until she could trust the new dojo and its participants with her information. She just wants to be treated fairly and like everyone else. Lots of people come to dojo's with previous experience. It isn't a crime. It's Karate.

Don't think it was just counting though. I think the op said, she seemed to understand / be conversant in other terms.

That aside, I guess as in instructor who sees his insurance premium go up year after year, I get a bit twitchy about knowing who trains / spars in my dojo.

If they are a novice they are a novice, but if not you have a duty of care toward your other students.

[rockdan]

I can understand both sides. I have trained in a karate style for 8 years and I have been an instructor at our school for the last 3, but I have also been a student in other schools in the last three years because I have moved around and gone to school.

As an instructor, I see the need to understand a students limits and abilities, however, even if they fess up to experience it does not mean that they are going to be a strong student, they could have come from a black belt factory. I don't agree with the argument regarding insurance or safety, mostly because all new students should be watched and guided, not just those with no experience.

I have been to three different schools over the past three years, all of them were in different styles than the style that I have my black belt in and I can completely understand why she would not want you to know about her previous experience until she had a feel for your school. I have never lied about my experience, but my experience had me uncomfortable in some instances, which is partially my fault and partially the fault of the instructor.

What I have decided for the future, if I find myself in a new school again, is to simply be straight forward and honest with the instructors. It is much easier to sit down and talk with someone about expectations and experience to make sure both parties are on the same page. I don't think she meant any disrespect towards you or the arts but I do not see what she has done a good thing because a lie by omission is still a lie.

[Traymond]

Some forms of Tae Kwon Do speak in Japanese, due to the influence of Japan when it took over Korea. If you havent noticed that "Do" in Japanese martial arts and in Korean martial arts refer to "The Way". And it may have been a Nihongo Jin teaching it.

But it does seem that she was trying to empty her cup for the new classes.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I don't think she meant any disrespect towards you or the arts but I do not see what she has done a good thing because a lie by omission is still a lie.

And thats my point really.

Re the insurance thing. Here in the UK, one of the main causes of accidents is what the insurance companies refer to as "inappropriate grade matching" when it comes to sparing, and as in instructor you should be very aware of the abilities of everyone in your club in order to match them appropriately.

I totally agree rockdan btw with your comments on guidance of new students (both experience and inexperienced), but if I remember rightly the op mentioned about sparing. Personally I would be reluctant to let any newcomer to my dojo loose on sparing the first time I met them.

But maybe thats just me. I like to train safe at the end of the day.

[Traymond]

in the UK do they not make you sign a no liability waver?

[joesteph]

in the UK do they not make you sign a no liability waver?

In the US, which has laws based on British law, it's whether or not negligence played a role, meaning that if there's no negligence, there's no liability; but if the instructor, who is the person considered responsible for the goings-on in the dojo/dojang, has been negligent (which is where the sparring abilities difference comes in), then there are grounds for a lawsuit, no matter what was signed.

This is why there are many non-contact dojos/dojangs in the US; the chance of injury goes way down, the chance of claiming negligence does as well, and lawsuits are avoided. In the dojang I studied at years ago, although it was Tae Kwon Do, no jump kicks (TKD w/o jump kicks!) were taught or permitted--for a legal reason.

It affects the student in terms of MA knowledge, yes, but many people go to non-contact schools, and owners worry less about lawsuits.

[Traymond]

Hmmmm so this is a bit of information for me as well.

So even if you have signed a no liability waver saying that the school or any of its affiliates are not liable for any mishaps, or injuries that happen within the hall

the instructor could still be held liable if it were a misrepresented sparring match?

[DWx]

in the UK do they not make you sign a no liability waver?

I don't know about other MAs but for TKD most, if not all, of the major GB associations are under the British Taekwondo Council (BTC) who provide insurance, including indemnity for coaches/instructors etc. where steps have been taken to reasonably minimise risk. Unless it is negligence and it really was too dangerous, the instructor is rarely liable.