bushido_man96 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 In a book I am reading, Total Aikido, there is this quote by Gozo Shioda (the author) in regards to the importance of the throw called Shio-nage (four directions throw) in the basics of Aikido:Everyone, you may think "How should this technique be done," "How should that technique be done," but the thing to remember is, although there are many techniques, you must grasp the principles that underlie them. It comes down to shifting your balance quickly, moving your hands, feet, and hips as one. The basis of this is shiho-nage. As Ueshiba Sensei said, "To throw to the four directions, this is the essence of Aikido. Therefore, shiho-nage on its own, if performed correctly, is sufficient.For those with more experience than mine in Aikido, do you find this to be the case? If so, how so? I am still new to Aikido, so I wanted to see what others had to say.The idea of understanding the underlying principles makes good sense to me; this is true with all concepts Martial. Seeing it put into the Aikido perspective helps to give some of my out-of-class training some more focus. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
JohnC Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I think what Shioda Sensei is referring to is the way tori and uke move individually, as well as together, how their energy is linked into, exchanged, blends and is directed, how, once begun, all of this inexorably leads up to the completion of the throw. This specific type of body movement and energy exchange / direction is the heart of Aiki. Without trying to sound too traditional, the understanding of this is difficult and requires much practice. It is multi-layered. I'd suggest that you might begin with the body mechanics themselves. In doing yokomen-uchi (p. 76 of Total Aikido), do the move slowly and focus on how each body is caused to move during the sequence. Note how you don't 'block' the side strike but accept it and redirect it downward and through by dropping your energy underside, not by using brute strength. This redirection completely takes uke, who then cannot resist what follows.By subtle shifts during the turn you can essentially drop uke wherever you wish almost effortlessly. If done properly the throw can be delivered gently or hard, fast or slow, it doesn't matter, once begun it just flows.Much of what I do from an Aiki standpoint is based in Shioda Sensei's approaches. I thoroughly recommend his other books: Aikido - The Complete Basic Techniques and Dynamic Aikido. Also get Westbrook and Ratti's Aikido - The Dynamic Sphere and, in my opinion, you'll have a better research set than most. Hope this helps.
bushido_man96 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 Thanks for the tip, John. I have noticed that the motion in bringing the uke down in the shio-nage is most troubling to me. I think that part of it might come from my start-and-stop approach to putting the technique together right now, though.As for the books, I have most of them, and have either read them or am in the process of reading them. I am looking into acquiring a few more, too. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
bushido_man96 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Posted December 8, 2008 So, if I were to practice one throw over and over again, should I focus on this one for now, as a beginner? Or is there something simpler that a guy in my position should work on (breakfalling aside). https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
JohnC Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Short answer is: My advice would be, if possible, limit your training to a few throws / controls and even fewer applications within those throws (e.g. 3 throws /controls with 2 applications each (i.e. 6 moves)) in each learning segment (much like TKD might teach step up and turning front kicks, side kicks and round kicks to a white belt but no other kicks). Learn those to where they can be done operationally then add another layer. Aikido actually doesn't have that many different throws / controls but the application base is enormous. Background: My fundamental teaching issue with the way most Aikido is trained is that, unlike Karate, there usually is no stratification of the lesson plan. This causes that a student may see a specific technique only once in several weeks even though coming regularly (think of only practicing a turning round kick in one class out of three months of classes). The Aikido boys will tell you that they go over, say, Ikkyu (Ikkajo, first technique) at least every other class. What they don't tell you is that they go over an APPLICATION of Ikkyu every other class. Thus, even though the student sees Ikkyu a lot, he/she is practicing different body movements, lead ins, timing, positioning, etc. This approach greatly inhibits the learning, imo. Hence my advice above. With regards yokomen-uchi, I understand, much of Aiki requires spot-on timing and continuous flow. It's really hard to learn AND do operationally. Hang in there, with practice it'll come. Hope this helps.
bushido_man96 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Posted December 9, 2008 Thanks for the tips, John. I have noticed that the Aikido classes tend to be a bit more helter-skelter in what they teach. It just seems to go on a whim of the class teacher.When we did the seminar, however, it was a bit different. We started with a technique, and we did it from one particular instance, like the same side grab. Then, we moved to doing it from a punch. Then, from maybe a grab and punch. I liked this approach, and I would like to see more of it in a class. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
JohnC Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 That's the approach I use also. I teach a particular technique using a simple application and then continue with the technique but change applications or add combinations to keep things interesting. Thus, the student keeps 80% of the movements the same (the technique) and only has to change 20% (the lead in).
bushido_man96 Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 With my first few exposures, I really liked the irimi-nage movements and motions, so I tried to work off of them for a time. I think when it picks back up, I'll ask for a few pointers there, and then work with it on my own to get them down. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
tallgeese Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 On a slight aside here, bushido man. Are either of those Aikido text worth reading for someone not actively persuing aikido? I know the Dynamic Sphere was written by Ratti and Westbrook and I've like their other work as very informative.So, should I pick either or both of them up? http://alphajiujitsu.com/https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww
bushido_man96 Posted December 11, 2008 Author Posted December 11, 2008 Dynamic Aikido was a good read, and I fealt that I could work from it, with the experience that I have gained thus far. It also allows one to do like John was suggesting, in picking a specific throw to work on, and then work some variations of it. It sticks to basic throws very well.Total Aikido is much more involved, from what I have read so far. I do like the text, and it covers a lot of the body movements that go along with Aikido. Not so much history, but very much into technique and performance. If you feel up to something more in-depth, then take a peek at it. I like them both. I'm pretty sure you would benefit from them, too.On a side note, I haven't found a text yet that really covers the Aikitaisos that the club I attend uses, but I am beginning to think that they must be something rather unique to that association. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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