-- Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Let's just leave it at that. You say anyone who takes Ninjutsu is a ninja. I say only someone who lives a Ninjutsu lifestyle is a ninja. But I wonder...given the choice, would you accept a ninja lifestyle? d----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I would rather think of myself as a noble Samurai. Although I like the Bushido. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-- Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Noble? Kensai, I'm sorry to say, samurai were generally bloodthirsty, masochist, short-tempered, egotistical killers of noble birth. Before you reply, read Hagakure, by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, or so I believe his name is. There were a few very noble samurai, but even they lived as no man should. Miyamoto Musashi himself never bathed, combed his hair, socialized, brushed his teeth, married, or anything of the sort. He only went into public to meet with or seek potential students. The life of a samurai is the life of a berserker. You put no value on your life, only on your honor. You kill accordingly, you die accordingly. As a samurai, you are not noble. Proud, but not noble. You lead the life of a killer, an opposition to nature's natural way. It is the exact opposite of Aikido; you would never, ever want to be either a samurai or a ninja, believe me. If you want to use your abilities in a way helpful to the people, what you are thinking of is a monk, most likely a Shaolin disciple. Ninja killed, spied, and thieved for a living. Samurai centered their lives around their honor, their egos, and their tempers. Monks lived by codes of honor, kindness to the people, and unity with nature. I think that's what many people, such as PoisonFree (wants to be a ninja) and you (want to be a samurai) are actually thinking of. d----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Then perhaps you should read the "code of the Samurai" a great tranlation by Tomas Cleary. In war there are always calsulaty's in this case and for many Samurai it was their code by which they "should" have lived. The code runs along the same lines as what O Sensei Ueshiba created. To use your martial abilitys for the better. However there are always some that do not. Although I have not read the book you speak of, I would believe that some or even many would break the code. For me the true Samuari is a person that upholds the code, of truth, honour and justice. Aikido is based on the prinicples of O Sensei, in turn he got many of his ideas from Sokaku Takeda, a great Samurai, perhaps a little heavy handed, but never betrade the code. You also said that monks used there powers for good. In some cases I would agree with you, however all people cant win there fight against greed. The reason why Wing Chun excists, and some of the great Kung Fu styles were hunted to exstintion is because of greed and jealously. Are you familiar with the story of Ng Moy and Wing Chun. Ng Moy had to flee the shoalin monestry because some of the monks truned against it in favour of there Manchurian rulers. The only reason that they could enter the temple is because of the stray monks. All people are open to turning to the "evil" side. Not just the Samurai. In truth I would not consider myself a Samurai. Of course not, but I believe and try to live in there basic beliefs. Be Well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martial_Artist Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 On 2002-07-08 15:08, Mankr wrote: from martial-way.com ...It is said that their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War... Sun Tsu's the Art of War is a military strategic text dealing mostly with castle sieges, large troop embattlements on different types of terrain, and solider discipline. It is not a ninja book. In the final chapter, the 13th, he does make mention of the use of spies, but by his definition they would not be ninja (because they come from the ranks of his troops, the ranks of the enemies troops, of the villages where the enemy had encamped). The Art of War was written by Sun Tsu as a military manual for generals of large armies, and that is what the body of the text deals with. It has nothing to do with ninja. About the japanese meaning of the word. Ninja, etymological analysis, nin = ninjitsu ja = person Inaccurate translation. ja should be sha, that's how it's written in japanese. Ja is the english tongue's inability to pronounce the syllable. nin = bear, endure, hide oneself sha = person (KODANSHA Japanese - English Dictionary) The more accurate translation: one who hides themself. Just to clear up some misunderstandings about Sun Tsu and the japanese language. _________________ Aut non tentaris aut perfice. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam. [ This Message was edited by: Martial_Artist on 2002-07-14 12:56 ] "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-- Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 In application: Even a noble ninja would have to spy, kill, and thieve to uphold his living. Even a noble samurai must accept himself as a killer by duty, even if he is a noble one. Only a monk, of these three, serves the purpose of providing for the community, not only in wartime applications. Ninja and samurai were men of war. They were men of peace, but their principles were not. I have read the Code of the Samurai, under Cleary's translation, and I agree that there were some great and noble samurai. However, very few samurai followed this code; read Hagakure and you will see the path embraced by the majority of samurai. Weapons are tools of evil. Even things hate them. ~Tao Teh Ching The samurai and ninja were effectively weapons, albeit noble ones. d----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 The Samuari were artists, police and keepers of the peace. Not just men of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRo Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 ok guys please chill this is a friendly forum. keep it cool thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyNinja Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Mmmm. 6 pages of messages on ninjitsu? You all just did exactly what US ninjas love to do! Distill confusion among the masses. Look at yourselves argueing over the history of ninjas. Differnce between shinobus and ninjas. I almost fell of my tree branch laughing sooo hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Arahat Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Do Ninja's have stock in the Caramilk secret? Is that why they want to kill that dude on TV? Do ninjas really breakdance anytime they hear "Kung-Fu Fighting" on the jukebox? Is the Ninja's training video "Ninja 3:The Domination" equivilent to basic training? Check out http://www.entertheninja.com for your answers... Martial Arts School http://www.shaolinwushu.cahttp://www.liveyyc.comCalgary Photographer: http://www.jdirom.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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