Mas Oyama & the ITF

[bushido_man96]

Very solid point, Truestar. I think that there isn't enough of that going on.

[RichardZ]

Mas was Korean by birth, did he actually study any Korean martial arts?

[bushido_man96]

I think his study was in the Japanese styles, but so where those of Hwang Kee and General Choi.

[RichardZ]

It may not be deniable that Korean arts have been influenced heavily by Japanese arts and there may nit be any true Korean martial art lineage still in existence.

Edited November 9, 2009 by RichardZ

[bushido_man96]

No, I'd say that there really isn't. What the Koreans did do is really take kicking and make it their own. But to claim 5000 year lineages to TKD....nothing to substaniate that.

[RichardZ]

You can't blame the Koreans for trying to create a national past time. They have been de-cultured by heavy Japanese influences. Asian pride, known as "face" is still strong in the East

Edited November 9, 2009 by RichardZ

[bushido_man96]

I understand the motivation behind the actions. But, that doesn't make it right.

[tonydee]

"Right" often isn't a significant concern for military regimes, which is what Korea was for much of the time the deception was being propagated. They were more concerned about promoting national pride and confidence than history / truth, and of all the countries whose contributions they might have acknowledged, Japan would understandably have been at the bottom of the list.

You could argue that Korea made kicking their own, but the sad thing is that it didn't last: the sports emphasis in modern TKD compromised it again. The would-be pinnacle of that - the "Korean Tigers" demo team - set a bad direction for flashy kicks: paper-thin "boards" and kicks no more practical, and a lot less gymnastically impressive, than many kids into "extreme martial arts". And while ITF hasn't slid as far, I think they've dropped the ball too.

Likening martial arts to cooking: some dishes are famously indefinite - you add whatever you have and modify things to suit yourself, teach someone and they know they can modify it freely too. But, sometimes a dish is just right the way it is, and that spirit of casual experimentation is less useful than a profound understanding of the existing recipe, which may already incorporate an accumulation of subtle fine-tuning. So, the morale of the story is: don't mess with Nobu's cod, especially you Americans with your tomato ketchup ;-P.

Yes, I'll seek help....

[RichardZ]

"Likening martial arts to cooking: some dishes are famously indefinite - you add whatever you have and modify things to suit yourself, teach someone and they know they can modify it freely too. But, sometimes a dish is just right the way it is, and that spirit of casual experimentation is less useful than a profound understanding of the existing recipe, which may already incorporate an accumulation of subtle fine-tuning. So, the morale of the story is: don't mess with Nobu's cod, especially you Americans with your tomato ketchup ;-P.

Yes, I'll seek help....

If no dishes were experimented, then there will be no famous recipes to begin with. Food is best when it is tried and nurrowed from a existing recipe. each according to the taste of the cukture which has designed it and relishes it.

[taepan01]

Hi Guys,

I think it's important to keep in mind that WTF and ITF TKD are almost two different martial arts with very little in common. WTF is more a sport with a poor foundation based on politics over logic developed by a man who never really practiced martial arts Un Yong Kim. The drech in the Olympics is just something for people who do other martial arts to look at and use to disparage real TKD. No punches to the head, and fall down after every kick, seriously? where as ITF is a well thought out scientifically applied martial art developed by a man who spent his life developing it on sound scientific principals.

Oyama and Gen Choi where friends and agreed on so many things that they agreed to become brothers both legally and emotionally. A marriage of their martial arts was not part of this, though I am sure that would have pleased Gen. Choi as his dream is to spread TKD as widely as possible.

If you want to read a very indepth book on TKD's hostory and politics "A Killing Art" is a good one, but it is not unbiased. It is also a good idea to pick up Gen. Choi's autobiography from TKD Times "Taekwondo and I" I would also recomend studying Gen. Choi's book "Taekwondo" either the big book or the 15 volume encyclopedia explaining all of the anatomy and science behind real TKD moves.