bunkai of the Pinan Katas

[unknownstyle]

what i was looking for mostly was not what you have been taught but more what you have developed from your own understanding. if we just stick with what we are taught than we will never have full understanding as to how the technique can be applied. kata has limitless possibilities, and their are alot of people that see them as useless and empty. its our job as a generation of practioners to keep these traditions alive and to build on them. sorry i think i got off subject.

[Wa-No-Michi]

what i was looking for mostly was not what you have been taught but more what you have developed from your own understanding. if we just stick with what we are taught than we will never have full understanding as to how the technique can be applied. kata has limitless possibilities, and their are alot of people that see them as useless and empty. its our job as a generation of practioners to keep these traditions alive and to build on them. sorry i think i got off subject.

Can you give us an example of some of your creations?

[unknownstyle]

well most of mine are armlocks, my teacher is not very fond of them so we dont learn a lot of them. i have been experimenting a lot with kyusho, and throwing techniques as well though.

i was told by another sensei that any technique in any kata can be used as kyusho, tuite, kuzushi, nage waza or bone breaks and from that point on i have just been throwing things together.

[ShawnMiller]

Tallgeese what you have been told is very true, kata does map out the body and the nerves (kyusho jitsu). The augmented block does map out H-2, which is a very effective way to deal with an arm to weaken it or take it out. It is also correct it isn’t a block; well I guess it can be used as one but it would be a waste to do so. There are so many different ways to interpret every move. None are wrong just some are more realistic and effective than others. It is art and that is what makes it so. I also agree with unkownstyle everyone should be working on their own meanings for kata.

[swadoryu2000]

None are wrong just some are more realistic and effective than others. It is art and that is what makes it so. I also agree with unkownstyle everyone should be working on their own meanings for kata.

I agree with both you and unknownstyle, especially about meaning on the kata. If you go by what your instructor says about a particualr kata verbatum, it isn't really that ''special''. You gotta find understanding on a different level on your own (bunkai-wise). That is what makes kata ''special'' (I guess it's a good way to put it) and unique.

So we have gotten some pretty interesting bunkai for that move. So what about the next moves? For me, after we have finished in the Gyaku-neko-ashi-dachi, we would turn 45 degrees (facing the back left corner) into a short neiko ashi dachi (left foot foward) with a chudan soto uke with the left hand. Then, we progress with a mae geri and a double chudan tsuki. I can see this as a hip toss turning 45 degrees, kicking him on the ground, and holding him down with one hand, and punching him with the other. Or you coud be just blocking someone's middle punch, pulling it in as you kick, and double punching him. What do you all think?

[Wa-No-Michi]

well most of mine are armlocks, my teacher is not very fond of them so we dont learn a lot of them. i have been experimenting a lot with kyusho, and throwing techniques as well though.

i was told by another sensei that any technique in any kata can be used as kyusho, tuite, kuzushi, nage waza or bone breaks and from that point on i have just been throwing things together.

Cool,

Whilst I am an advocate of Atemi Waza, personally I think that the Kyusho thing can be hit and mis. Also most good systems of ma should automatically include drills to train Kusushi, Katame and Nage etc., so I would exercise caution in straying a little too far from the embusen of the kata in order to facilitate this.

[bushido_man96]

what i was looking for mostly was not what you have been taught but more what you have developed from your own understanding. if we just stick with what we are taught than we will never have full understanding as to how the technique can be applied. kata has limitless possibilities, and their are alot of people that see them as useless and empty. its our job as a generation of practioners to keep these traditions alive and to build on them. sorry i think i got off subject.

I think you are correct here. Forms can have so many good uses and applications, that it is tough to think that they can be looked at as merely a bookmark in the curriculum.

The other day at our Aikido class, I saw a motion that looked like a good application as a throw for the mountain blocks in our form Toi Gye.

[ShawnMiller]

Kyusho isn’t hit or miss, its all how and what you train for. Everything is hit or miss depending on your abilities and how you train. Besides as one my instructors says "aim small miss small" If I aim for a target and so I am off a little bit yes I wont have the reaction from facilitating the nerve, but I still have blunt force trauma like every one else does. It’s just an added bonus for me.

Bushidoman, I know exactly what you mean about Aikido, I have noticed sometimes how the throw or control they use looks just like some of the kata moves.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Kyusho isn’t hit or miss, its all how and what you train for.

I did mention that it was a personal viewpoint, but if it works for you then great.

Bushido_man - To my mind you are better off training with the sort of things you are learning in your Aikido class specifically, rather than trying to figure out where the techniques you have learned can be addopted into your kata training.

[tallgeese]

Then what's the point of gaining your own interpretations if he can't incorporate valid combative movements into his training?

Personally, this is why I shy away from kata. It's too "what does this mean" kind of training. Find movements that work, set up drills to practice them against increasingly live opponents, use them. It's easier that way, and save a ton of time in prepping movements for use to my mind.

Sorry, this last string took us a little off topic. Just my opinion.