Money scheme for karateka teaching boxing with colored glove

[Vladko]

My good friend is a kickboxer turned boxer. ( I know usually it's the other way around.)

He told me last night what the gym owner was up to. I did not know if to laugh, cry or what.

He used to own a karate/kick boxing gym and purchased a boxing gym from a boxer coach.

His first order of busness was to order different color boxing gloves and trunks. Every fighter will be ranked based on the skills to color and will have to box with those.

I thought my friend was joking, so I came down there at 8:30 pm. The gym looks like McDojo. Color trunks hanging on the top. Rows of different color gloves.

I told my friend, I don't think this will fly with boxers. These are not 8 year old girls who care more about the toe nail polish and cute belts, then about kicks and punches.

These are young men, who can barely afford the fees.

Interesting experiment, I love to see what happens.

Maybe McDojing works well, I been wrong before.

[joesteph]

His first order of busness was to order different color boxing gloves and trunks. Every fighter will be ranked based on the skills to color and will have to box with those. . . .

Interesting experiment, I love to see what happens.

Actually, Vladko, it is an interesting experiment. Your friend has an idea, and the only way to have the theory proven--or disproven--is by putting it into practice. It's completely ethical; no one has to join his gym, and who can say if the younger set won't find it innovative and interpret it much the same as those in the martial arts think of belts? It's likely where your friend got the idea and, since you mentioned he'd been a kickboxer first, if you look in the AWMA catalog, there are pink boxing and bag gloves.

Did he explain to you how the ranking system would operate?

I do sympathize about the cost, as it's not just trunks but the gloves as well. Your friend has a creative idea, and since he's first, he'll likely get a number of inquiries, maybe even memberships, in the beginning. The test will be the challenge of retention.

I wonder how "older" boxers (as in those with experience and who have their own gear) will react if told they have a new expense, and how they'll be ranked.

Watch it catch on and revolutionize boxing!

[moriniuk]

This may not be such a new idea, as I think that Savate (French kickboxing) uses a coloured glove ranking system. I'm not sure if they actually wear the gloves or if they are symbolic.

Ranking systems have also been introduced into Muay Thai in the west. There was never a stystem in Thailand, although there are a couple of Thai organisations which have recently introduced them but mainly aimed at foreigners.

[Vladko]

Actually it's not my friend, but the owner of the gym that's doing it.

I did not know that Savate does something like this. Muay Thai, that's even weirder. lol

It's an experiment of coarse. I wonder how would he grade them? Jabs per minute? Punching power? Fights won?

If it works, everyone else will do. Look at Youtube. lol

[tallgeese]

I don't like the sound of it personally. But, that's just me and I really don't have a good reason why. Just stikes me as...well, I can't even put my finger on it. I would guess that it won't fly, or if it does it will not attract true competitive boxers.

[joesteph]

I would guess that it won't fly, or if it does it will not attract true competitive boxers.

Perhaps it'll attract those who have taken kickboxing lessons--which are against air (cardio) or against heavy bags--and would like to try boxing, but the traditional gym isn't their style. They may even have once taken a martial art. I think that this attracts the "sparring" types, Tallgeese, the kind who enter MA tournaments that have strict rules for safety purposes; it isn't for the truly competitive boxer, who's in the ring trying to knock somebody unconscious and not get knocked out in the process, and so the problem of experienced boxers balking at the introduction of colored gloves and trunks, of being "measured" or "tested," doesn't come into play. But there are always newbees.

Trainers have entire punching combinations that they expect their boxers to practice and know how to fire off instantly; there's one way to test for rank right there.

Cardio-kickboxing, kickboxing against heavy bags, and now boxing rank not determined by your fight record but by what test you passed in a gym, and recognition for it like a martial artist--by a hierarchy of colors.

Innovative? Knowing the market? Who's to say . . .

[moriniuk]

I wonder if the coloured belt ranking system introduced by Jigoro Kano and now almost universally accepted was fully accepted by all when it was introduced?

The vast majority of people who train in the ring orientated martial arts such as kickboxing and Muay Thai never compete in the ring.

There are many other reasons why they train. I see a grading system as offering these people achievable goals, motivation etc.

Surely, nowadays, in the not so hardcore boxing gyms there are people training for other reasons than competition. Therefore I don't see this as anything different to grading in kickboxing or Muay Thai, it's just new.

Personally though, I think the expense of new gloves and shorts would be off putting and something like a silk sash as worn in kung fu would be better.

[bushido_man96]

This may not be such a new idea, as I think that Savate (French kickboxing) uses a coloured glove ranking system. I'm not sure if they actually wear the gloves or if they are symbolic.

Yes, Savate does this. I do believe the gloves are worn, so if you know the system, when you see a match, you can determine the experience levels of each of the fighters.

Muay Thai has never done this, to my knowledge. Perhaps the coach is trying to accomplish something like this, and it may be where he got the idea.

[moriniuk]

The Savate system starts at blue gloves and continues with green, red, white, yellow and silver.

Muay Thai in general use coloured armbands called "prajiat" in Thai. Some schools use coloured sashes. I must stress that I have only seen these in the UK, however there is an organisation based in Thailand (AITMA) that is promoting a ranking system, but it is mainly aimed at foreigners. I have never seen anyone in Thailand wear these armbands to denote rank.

[joesteph]

Is this more of a Western thing than an Eastern concern? Is it that Westerners are less patient and want to see measurements of progress, the colored belts, gloves, whatever accommodating our desire to hit the goal of, say, black belt? ("Are we there yet?" by adults.)

In my own art, Soo Bahk Do, originally there were four colored belts: white, green, red, midnight blue. A system of adding one or two small colored stripes to a belt denoted where you were as you moved along. Then the orange belt was introduced between white and green, giving another gauge, especially with the lower belts. Was this a response to Western, particularly American, desires for promotion, for symbols of proficiency?

I'm not going to say that I wasn't proud each time my boys earned a new stripe on their white belts, and it was a big deal when I earned a stripe on my orange belt just as the boys earned orange belts themselves after they put in a year of hard work, but there can be an "obi-do" mentality that just goes too far.

With the boxers, I'd say that it's a marketing gimmick, but it's not unethical. It'll likely attract individuals who might never take up boxing if they didn't have this offered to them; so be it, as they'll likely not try turning pro and getting their brains bashed in. As for Savate, well, we're dealing with a history lesson here, that it's time-honored in that art (Viva la France!).