TKD in real life situations?

[NightOwl]

Depends on how it is practiced. A lot of TKD is geared toward WTF sparring with the sport becoming so popular, but I have a scary korean acquaintance who is a Hapkido master (not TKD, I know) and is a vicious fighter on the streets, once taking out over 4 guys in bar brawl...I'm not saying he is a role model

However he not only trains in point sparring, but cross trains with other disciplines like boxing and does heavy contact sparring. He can use the hapkido techniques in real life just fine- but that is because he trains them that way. Likewise any discipline be it TKD, Jujutsu, Kung Fu, etc. usually has techniques that can be used, but it all depends on if you train them in the right way.

[bushido_man96]

The problem with WTF sparring, in my opinion, is that it has created a shell of itself, and no one comes out of it. No one punches, and the gear is a pain in the butt, in my opinion. WTF TKD sparring would be a lot different if that punch was hitting the chest without gear on, than standing right next to each other and trying to figure out how to kick the guy in the head.

[NightOwl]

I agree there. I'm not a fan of the WTF ruleset by any means, but I think that it isn't necessarily meant to be entirely martial, but heading towards a martially influence sport.

Yes I think that many 'sport' martial arts have some of the best training out there (although I view sparring as a training tool which can be competitive and adapted for tournaments, and ANY physical activity can be called a sport). However everything can have extremes. I don't see TKD as a martially influenced sport like Wushu or to a great extent Kendo quite yet, but I don't think that the training lends itself well to a martial environment when it comes to some of the sparring. However just because the WTF practices one way doesn't mean that the techniques themselves are useless. Trained properly they can work IMO.

[bushido_man96]

The conditioning that WTF players usually have is awesome. Taking that conditoning and focusing on more of an SD aspect, would benefit them greatly.

[NightOwl]

The conditioning that WTF players usually have is awesome. Taking that conditoning and focusing on more of an SD aspect, would benefit them greatly.

Are we talking upper level? Because that is definitely true as those guys have great conditioning and cardio. However it holds true for most sports like track and field, soccer, etc.

While conditioning is very important, I think the training focus is what needs to change for WTF. But again, is WTF TKD on the whole meant to have a goal of fostering martial art/ fighting ability? I'm not so sure that is what the organization's leadership has in mind. Of course different places will have different focuses however.

[bushido_man96]

Well, I'm relatively sure that the WTF doesn't think that every participant is going to be Olympic caliber. So, the idea is to saturate the coffers, sort out for the talent, and then snatch it up. I think that is probably what they try to do.

Its up to individual schools and clubs to decide whether or not Olympic sparring is the focus.

[axispower]

Trustar nailed it. If you're going back to the Philippines then you should brush up on stick fighting. As for self-defense in TKD - wellllll, it's going to depend on your instructor. Better to talk about self defense in Korean martial arts in general. Our school teaches TKD katas. Our sparring, like that in most American TKD schools, focuses on hands and feet. In Korea, however, it's almost entirely focused on the feet. Take a look at Olympic style sparring and you'll see what I mean. For self-defense we fall back on Hapkido - which focuses on joint locks and throws. Bottom line - take what works and use it. And yes, sometimes that means picking up a stick.

[Gi-Unit]

There are a lot of McDojangs out there and if you train in one and assuming you have the drive and ability you will deffinitly become VERY good at delivering/defending kicks since thats pretty much all you do. Throwing and blocking KICKS. Not much throwing/blocking punches in my experience. However, I'm a blackbelt in this art and I feel confident using what SD techniques I have learned from TKD alone to defend myself against the average joe. Take it for what it's worth.

[ninjanurse]

Self Defense is defined by it's intent not a style........a kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, a block is a block.

[tonydee]

Old thread, so probably too late to help the OP, but thought I'd add my thoughts. The taekwondo community is a huge sprawling mess of schools with such varied backgrounds and emphasis, teaching just about every variation of even the art/sport's core techniques: not just the strikes and blocks, even the body mechanics and stances. To taekwondo, Hosin Sul is an afterthought - both defence against grabs and weapons - where a few instructors who generally cross-trained in Hapkido were asked to demo some stuff to make taekwondo seem more complete. It's like the average taekwondo master trying to teach meditation, nutrition, philosophy, grappling, chi/ki exercises, weapons, or reiki-like healing - there's no particular reason to think they'll know as much as a beginner who's spent a few months in a system specialised in those things. But, a few "masters" feel it adds to their mystique to be dispensing advice about such things, sometimes to all the students, other times exclusively to the higher dan grades who've already seen whatever technical aspects the master had to teach. Similarly, some taekwondo instructors advertise that they use western boxing techniques to make up for the lack of hand techniques in the system they learned from their instructors, but it's overwhelmingly likely - if they've degenerated to that - you'd be better of learning the kicking from them and going to a dedicated boxing class as well (or just finding a less watered-down TKD school, or another art).

My belief is simple: TKD schools that teach you how to block effectively - so you can invite someone to try to hit you and stand there and block every attack, and teach you how to punch and/or "chop" strongly, are practical for self defence. Whether or not they teach Hosin Sul isn't likely to make a big difference.

From another angle, joint locking is of limited practicality in a street fight: yes it can work when applied perfectly, or against a completely unaware opponent, or once the opponent is softened up, but students increase their practical capabilities much more quickly by learning a basic strike (palm's good - less likely to injure unconditioned knuckles), elbow, a little stance/footwork and distancing, basic blocking/smothering, turning kick and front kick. Escape from a few core positions where striking is difficult, like a head lock or someone sitting on your chest and pinning your arms, is useful - especially for kids in school brawls, but for general street situations you can strike your way out of most grab attempts, as long as you keep focused on balance, keeping your elbows down, and thinking which limb's free to use and where your opponent can be hit. I think this youtube video is a useful illustration.

I think one of my TKD instructors put it pretty well when he said Hosin Sul was what you did when a relative who knew you trained grabbed you at the family Christmas Party, and you needed to break out without hurting them.

So, if you're going to train the non-striking side of things, and want short- to medium-term results, you're probably better off getting into a more full on ju-jitsu or grappling system.

I have to agree that the martial arts of the Philippines and Indonesia are - with or without a knife or stick - probably a better option than most TKD schools.

Cheers,

Tony