Inside-Outside vs. Outside-Inside (as Crescent Kicks)

[joesteph]

To make sure I'm clear, when I say "inside-outside," think of the right leg going up on the left, then across to the right, striking with either the blade or heel of the foot. When I say "outside-inside," think of that same right leg going up on the right, then across to the left, striking with the inner area or the heel of the foot.

When I did Tae Kwon Do in the past, I was shown the outside-inside kick by my instructor, but not the inside-outside. It was pretty much that you whacked the opponent on the side of his head, but it was suggested that if you could kick high enough, you could have it come down on his head--my intro to the axe kick.

In the art I study now, Soo Bahk Do, I was introduced to the inside-outside kick, with its application as either striking across the face or dropping down on his collar bone as an axe kick. The outside-inside kick has been shown to me as a block against a punch, although it can also be used to drop down on the collar bone as an axe kick, but it isn't emphasized as much as the inside-outside.

I've questioned the power I generate in both kicks, that they're not equal. When practicing in the dojang, it's against paddles. When at home, it's been against the WaveMaster, but feeling I'm generating more power outside-inside (the "older" kick) than inside-outside. Now that I use a bag clapper, the very sound of the strike tells me that I'm generating more power outside-inside--i.e., the older kick.

Which do you find more powerful, the inside-outside or outside-inside kick? Do you have a preference, power or not?

[bushido_man96]

I find the inside-to-outside crescent kick (which I call outer crescent kick) to be more powerful. However, this kick also tends to telegraph more than the outside-to-inside (inner crescent) kick does. I like both, and have uses for both, and both can be done as an axe kick, too. I don't really use either in sparring, though. Sometimes I'll throw a spin crescent kick as a counter, but not often.

As for using the inner crescent kick to block anything, I wouldn't attempt it, except for in our pre-arranged one-steps. Otherwise, I just think it is better to block with the arms.

[Tiger1962]

It could be that you are just USED to doing it more the outside to inside way since that's what you initially learned in TKD.

For me, the reverse is true, my inside to outside kick is stronger. It feels stronger going up AND coming down.

In my outside to inside, it feels most strongest only coming down and not raising up. But then, I attribute that to the fact that I favor and practice the former more than the latter.

[tallgeese]

I've seen both, but don't use either so I won't try to postulate on the power outputs. Tiger probibly has a good point about power coming more eailsy to what you're accustomed to throwing.

I do agree with bushido man on the blocking point. Anything that has to move that far to stop a punch in going to be ineffectual. Punches move to quickly and when thrown properly in combinaion it will make any sort of blocking with the legs useless.

Hands cover the head, elbows and forearm cover the body, legs cover the legs and groin. It's the only scheme that reliably works across the board for combative situations as a standardized training scheme.

Trying to practice this type of thing is really like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in my opinion. It's taking away from time you could be training more effectual responses.

Just my opinion.

[Wa-No-Michi]

...It's taking away from time you could be training more effectual responses.

Hehe, a bit like MA internet forums really!

[tallgeese]

So very true .

[joesteph]

As for . . . to block anything, I wouldn't attempt it, except for in our pre-arranged one-steps. Otherwise, I just think it is better to block with the arms.

Anything that has to move that far to stop a punch in going to be ineffectual. Punches move to quickly and when thrown properly in combination it will make any sort of blocking with the legs useless.

The pre-arranged one-steps Bushido Man referred to have, as the next two for me to learn, to block a lunge punch with the outside-inside kick, and then without letting the foot hit the floor, turn it into a side kick. I think it's a training move, that you can have a two-kick chain, rather than against a punch, and I think that Tallgeese's observation is true about the speed of punches and punching combinations.

I think both kicks have their uses, but even though I have to learn it, I question swatting/blocking a punch (I wonder if the standard-practice lunge punch is more of a training tool than a seriously expected strike) with a kick. Tiger is right that I'm used to the outside-inside from the past, which has meant, though, that even with all the emphasis on the "new" (inside-outside) kick, the "old" kick remains stronger with me.

[tallgeese]

Definalty don't expect the lunging punch as an actual attack. Short strikes are the way to go. They can be a good place to start training responses, but you should move away from them asap for sd training.

If you get accustomed to reacting off of short, highly effefective striking, then anything that comes your way along the line of a highly telegraphed stepping punch or lunging pusch, or a giant round house hook for that matter, will be more easily countered by your training.

[Truestar]

I've never really measured each before. I find I get more power from the inside crescent kick. (We call them inside/outside crescent kicks).

[ninjanurse]

I myself prefer "inside-outside" but either has valid applications. I teach/train both.