our potential of self defense

[U78LK9]

although i don't yet know much about it, there are many reasons why i want to get started learning a martial art: the physical challenge, the joy of competition, personal development, and general curiosity.

but my primary reason is practical self-defense. i suppose that martial arts training makes one tend more successful in self-defense situation, all other things being equal. but how much more? what kind of potential for self-defense can martial arts training offer to one? (and i gather that there are many different styles of martial arts.)

i know that there are many variables. we all have different natural ability. some of us work harder, practice more, are smarter, are stronger, are faster, etc. but what i am curious about are your stories and knowledge, from experience, from your own eyes, on one's potential for self defense.

for example, i suppose it is true that with martial arts training i could come to defend myself against someone who is stronger than i am. but how much stronger? again i know everyone and every situation is different. but i want an idea. i also suppose that with training i could come to defend myself against multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, etc. but again, how much?

i hope this doesn't seem too simplistic to demand an intelligent answer. but i have been, am, and will continue to be a quite docile person. i have never been in a physical fight. i have to this point been able to avoid that sort of thing. but the time may come when there is no way out. be prepared.

so in short, what potential for self-defense does martial arts training offer?

[cross]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

People often confuse martial arts training with self defense training. If you ask most people where they would go to learn self defense, most would say a martial arts school. In reality if self defense is all you want to learn you would be better off going to a running coach and someone who can teach you people skills.

With that said, any martial art you do will only help your ability to defense yourself. But martial arts on its own probably wont give you everything you need. If you consider there are 3 stages of a self defense situation, pre-fight, fight, and post-fight.... martial arts helps you during the fight stage, but you need something else for the pre/post fight which is often the most important part of any situation. Thats where specific self defense programs come in.. some material i would recommend for this come from Richard Dimitri @ https://www.senshido.com , Tony Blauer, Sammy Franco.

Personally, i come from a traditional karate background, but i now train in mma/kickboxing/bjj 4 times per week, and work on the self defense specific stuff with a training partner on weekends.

Just some thoughts.

[joesteph]

[T]here are many reasons why i want to get started learning a martial art . . .

but my primary reason is practical self-defense. . . .

I suppose it is true that with martial arts training i could come to defend myself against someone who is stronger than i am. but how much stronger?

Cross gave a good answer to your concerns, U78LK9, especially when he observed:

[T]here are 3 stages of a self defense situation, pre-fight, fight, and post-fight.... martial arts helps you during the fight stage . . .

I liked seeing you refer to defending yourself, rather than saying you want to be able to pulverize somebody. In real-life situations, defending yourself often means handling a physical altercation; controlling it well enough so that you exit as unharmed as possible. The kind of individual who comes after you is likely to be larger, stronger than you are. This can mean being up against someone 30lbs heavier than you are, taking the steam out of his attack, and then taking off--no need to "fight" him. An example of self-defense would be that if a shot to the throat and/or knee frees you to escape, you go for it; then call the police and let them do their job.

When you study a martial art, whether one based on striking or grappling, you'll find much given to you for training in the dojo/dojang, but certain techniques that you'd actually utilize in a real-life situation. There's a great deal of "art" in a martial art; certain aspects of it, though, will be pointed out to you by your instructor, or just realized by you as you practice them, as best for self-defense.

[bushido_man96]

Its unfortunate really that the way that some people approach the Martial Arts doesn't make them as beneficial as they could be for self-defense. In my opinion, they should be the same. But, it isn't always so.

Hock Hockheim has some thoughts on bigger/faster/stronger people, and having to defend one-self against them. He talks about 15%, I think is the number...15% bigger, stronger, etc. Once you get to that point, you really will find it much more of a struggle to match their strength, etc, and will need to even things up in some way, like with a stick, or a dirty tactic, or something of the like.

Fighting multiples will always be a crap shoot. The main reason that people partake in gang-beatdown is because it works. There is a very high success rate. Best to learn how to avoid such situations at all costs.

[tallgeese]

The answer is that it depends. Some sytems have better training methods for teach self defense than others do. Some schools within those systems will have a more realistic approach to sd than others.

The best bet is to go and check it out. Look for lots of "live" training at various levels. This means that rather than always training from a static position, both the attcker and defender are moving. Also look for a spontaneous componat to the training at all levels. It might be mminimal for beginners, but it should be there.

Also see how often the schools you are looking at are sparring. A school that is good on defense will have the students working aginst full resisters fairly frequently at all levels.

Look at how much everyone there, or the school as a whole, cross trains. A comprehensive system for sd will be big. There will be time spent on stand up, ground work, and weaopns training. Make sure that the weapons are those of common use today, guns, knives, clubs and the like. Each of these area will further be broken down to specific skill sets for each area. Finally, you should see an integration of all the skills used as a "toolbox" mentality.

There should be movment trainig with all these things, then repetition work, followed by attack/defend drills, and culminating in armored opponants at each range and with each weapon resisting to various levels.

There should also be the occassional discussion of use of froce laws in your area.

That's kind of how the picuture of a sd school should look. Some will focus on one or more areas and that's fine, then just make sure that you're cross training for the rest.

Good luck.

[bushido_man96]

Good call on the weapons training, tallgeese. Swordsmanship, although really cool and fun to learn, won't be as useful to you in self-defense as something like stick and knife training will be. Don't discount firearms training, either.

[Tiger1962]

...so in short, what potential for self-defense does martial arts training offer?

Hi U78LK9 -

It depends on what style you decide to follow. Each martial arts style has something different to offer. If it's strictly self defense you are interested in then researching the martial arts styles that focus on self defense is the first step. Of course, some styles focus on self defense more-so than others. Doing the research first and then visiting a few schools is a great place to start. Good luck.

[Daisho]

Some schools focus on self defense more than others, and some styles are more realistic in that application than others.

However, any training that includes sparring, whether it be primarily a sport style like Judo/boxing, or a strictly combat system, you're going to get better at defending yourself, and attacking your opponent.

Regardless of the style, the fact that punches are coming your way in class, and you regularly train to deal with a trained fighter, is going to make you more comfortable when the situation does arise. Much like catching a ball, your muscle memory and instinctive reflexes will begin to act according to your training, and the fact that you'll more than likely take a few hard shots in the dojo, you'll at least understand the effects of taking a heavy shot.

Over 1 hour of our class is dedicated to randori. This is because generally randori will exhaust us in under 5 minutes, and so we begin to learn how to handle fighting when our motor skills and body begin to fail us.

My sensei believes this is similar to high stress training in the military. We don't expect a fight to go for an hour, but the loss of motor skills due to extended periods of randori are meant to reflect the loss of motor skills due to shock of actually winding up in a self defense situation. And we learn to get to the point that our mind and muscles react properly, even when not exactly willfully being directed.

So yea, if self defense is your main priority, I would sit in on some classes and make sure that randori and sparring are a regular part of the training program. As some styles are much more focused on the expression of their art, or the philosophy and traditionalism of their lineage than they are on street confrontation.

[Throwdown0850]

Some schools focus on self defense more than others, and some styles are more realistic in that application than others.

However, any training that includes sparring, whether it be primarily a sport style like Judo/boxing, or a strictly combat system, you're going to get better at defending yourself, and attacking your opponent.

Regardless of the style, the fact that punches are coming your way in class, and you regularly train to deal with a trained fighter, is going to make you more comfortable when the situation does arise. Much like catching a ball, your muscle memory and instinctive reflexes will begin to act according to your training, and the fact that you'll more than likely take a few hard shots in the dojo, you'll at least understand the effects of taking a heavy shot.

Over 1 hour of our class is dedicated to randori. This is because generally randori will exhaust us in under 5 minutes, and so we begin to learn how to handle fighting when our motor skills and body begin to fail us.

My sensei believes this is similar to high stress training in the military. We don't expect a fight to go for an hour, but the loss of motor skills due to extended periods of randori are meant to reflect the loss of motor skills due to shock of actually winding up in a self defense situation. And we learn to get to the point that our mind and muscles react properly, even when not exactly willfully being directed.

So yea, if self defense is your main priority, I would sit in on some classes and make sure that randori and sparring are a regular part of the training program. As some styles are much more focused on the expression of their art, or the philosophy and traditionalism of their lineage than they are on street confrontation.

Agreed, very nicely put..