Origins of Tamashiwara?

[moriniuk]

Somebody must have invented the breaking of stones, wood, bricks or ice as a way of demonstrating strength or martial prowess, just like somebody invented katas.

Regarding spelling. Most asian languages that are not written using our alphabet do not have corresponding sounds for our letters. Therefore, I don't think there is a correct way to spell it.

I speak Thai and there are many different ways that people write the same Thai words in English and none are incorrect because there isn't a standardised system.

We can write Zuki or Tsuki, Dachi or Tachi, Geri or Keri etc. Which ones are incorrect? None.

[joesteph]

I speak Thai and there are many different ways that people write the same Thai words in English and none are incorrect because there isn't a standardised system.

And the pronounciations are really odd when said by Westerners, Moriniuk. It says on your web site:

"Muay Thai, pronounced Moo-ay Tie, Moo (as in "mood"), ay (as in "way") and Tie (as in to "tie" a knot) translates into English as Thai style boxing."

I've heard it pronounced "Moo Tie," "Moo-ee Tie," and "Moy Tie." I was glad to find the correct pronunciation on your school's site.

Regarding spelling, it's the same difficulty putting Korean (my art is Soo Bahk Do) into English lettering and pronunciation.

_____ _____

Edited September 28, 2008 by joesteph

[moriniuk]

I have an old instructional video and the American narrator calls it Myou Thigh and Thigh Boxing.

I'm glad to have helped you with your pronunciation.

[Wado-AJ]

We can write Zuki or Tsuki, Dachi or Tachi, Geri or Keri etc. Which ones are incorrect? None.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.

it is: keriwaza

it is: mawashigeri

it depends on if the "2nd word" is behind or before.

tachikata

shikodachi

tsukiwaza

junzuki

So actually it does matter. This is grammer.

kumite gata

kata

yakusoku gumite

It matters in pronouncation.

[bushido_man96]

Oyama probably picked it up from Funakoshi. The Korean styles proabably also picked it up from the experiences that the GMs would have had with Karate styles like Shotokan when they were living in Japan for schooling (Gen. Choi comes to mind).

As far as an origin, it may be hard to pin down.

[Wa-No-Michi]

We can write Zuki or Tsuki, Dachi or Tachi, Geri or Keri etc. Which ones are incorrect? None.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.

it is: keriwaza

it is: mawashigeri

it depends on if the "2nd word" is behind or before.

tachikata

shikodachi

tsukiwaza

junzuki

So actually it does matter. This is grammer.

kumite gata

kata

yakusoku gumite

It matters in pronouncation.

Hi Guys, first day on this forum so I thought I would get stuck in.

With reference to origins of "tameshiwari" I think all explanations are probably valid. I know that the Kenjutsu guys practice their sword cutting with something they call "tameshigiri" which literally means "test cutting". Maybe this is where at least the name originates from.

As far as the Japanese is concerned I think Wado AJ is correct.

I have always understood that words that start with "phonetically" harsh sounds like K's and T's are rounded off (into G's and D's) when they are preceded by words that end with softer vowel type sounds.

So strictly speaking it is Kihon Kumite but also;

Jiyu Gumite.

So the spelling is different in this context in order to assist correct pronunciation.

Good topic though guys.

[joesteph]

Question for AJ and Wa-No-Michi:

You must have studied Japanese. Did you do so only in the US, or did you visit Japan?

I met a high school senior several years ago whose school offered Japanese. He hasn't got a drop of Asian blood in him, but he was a natural with the language. It wound up that he visited Japan, living with a Japanese family for a summer.

I remember observing him helping his father, an attorney, with a Japanese-American client, as the client could sometimes only express himself clearly in Japanese.

[Wado-AJ]

Question for AJ and Wa-No-Michi:

You must have studied Japanese. Did you do so only in the US, or did you visit Japan?

I met a high school senior several years ago whose school offered Japanese. He hasn't got a drop of Asian blood in him, but he was a natural with the language. It wound up that he visited Japan, living with a Japanese family for a summer.

I remember observing him helping his father, an attorney, with a Japanese-American client, as the client could sometimes only express himself clearly in Japanese.

i must? have?

my sensei is japanese.

[joesteph]

my sensei is japanese.

Your posting was so precise that it gave me the appearance that you had studied the language.

You mentioned that your Sensei is Japanese, so you've got a great source available. My art, Soo Bahk Do, is Korean, and I'd sent in a special email that involved the language. There was a response by a high-ranking dan member, who's not only studied Korean, but has a Korean wife. He speaks it and writes it; a very knowledgeable man.

Edited October 4, 2008 by joesteph

[bushido_man96]

With reference to origins of "tameshiwari" I think all explanations are probably valid. I know that the Kenjutsu guys practice their sword cutting with something they call "tameshigiri" which literally means "test cutting". Maybe this is where at least the name originates from.

Good call here. Test cutting with sword techniques and "test breaking" with hand and foot techniques could have a common relation. If you did one with a weapon, why not with your natural weapons?

I think I read that Anko Itosu was known to test his striking ability on wooden objects, like doors and whatnot.