Origins of Tamashiwara?

[moriniuk]

Does anyone have any reliable information on the origins of tamashiwara, wood breaking or "trial by wood".

It seems to only be used in Kyokushin and its derivative styles and some of the Korean styles.

I think i've read somewhere that Mas. Oyama invented it, but it was possibly him that brought it into the spotlight.

[joesteph]

Does anyone have any reliable information on the origins of tamashiwara, wood breaking or "trial by wood".

I'm not sure, Moriniuk, if you're asking one question, about tamashiwara, or more than one, tamashiwara and wood breaking. What I found at the International Shorin-Ryu Karate Kobudo Federation (ISKKF) web site:

http://www.worldbudokan.com/Articles/MakiwaraTamashiwara.htm

was an article titled "MAKIWARA & TAMASHIWARA: The Lost Art of Breaking," by George W. Alexander, a 9th Degree Black Belt.

Like Wikipedia, the focus was really on makiwara, but he did say:

The word tamashiwara means breaking or testing of strength by breaking various types of objects. . . .

 

There is however one special type of tamashiwara technique. This is called shi-ho-wari breaking in four different directions with the last board breaking before the pieces of the other broken boards hit the floor.

Perhaps your question focused on the board-breaking alone? That last board breaking before the pieces of others hit the floor sounds amazing. Was this accomplishment the true focus of your question? There was no origin of this form of breaking mentioned in the article.

The article did refer to Master Oyama and Sensei Reeves by name, then to other, unnamed martial artists:

There are many feats of breaking that have become legendary like the ones of Master Mas Oyama who reportedly was able to knock out a bull with a single reverse punch. Reputedly, he did this more then once. Sensei Mike Reeves . . . can break four hundred boards in one minute! Other karate legends have smashed hundreds of pounds of ice with a single blow.

I think many in this forum have seen ice-breaking, either in person or on video. I don't know if anyone in this forum has done ice-breaking or concrete slab breaking, but board-breaking, I'm sure, has been done by many here.

The article went on to say:

Another benefit of tamashiwara is that it gives the practitioner a way of testing or measuring his power and the progression of this power. He is able to see that in the beginning he could break only one board; then possibly after a year or so he is able to break two boards. After another year or so and after consistent and intense training he can possibly break three or four boards.

Does Shorin-Ryu, the web site where I found the article, fit under Kyokushin as one of the derivative styles you referred to? I thought it developed separately. As for Korean styles, I know my own art, Soo Bahk Do, incorporates board-breaking, which I have to perform by elbow strike for my next test.

[moriniuk]

The question was just to find if anyone knew about the original origins of the practice of breaking objects in the practice of karate.

I wouldn't consider Shorin Ryu to be a derivative of Kyokushin. I was thinking of styles like World Oyama, Seido, Ashihara and Enshin etc. All modern styles.

Did Funakoshi, Miyagi, Yamaguchi, Ohtsuka, Mabuni or their teachers practice tamashiwara. Was it ever practiced on Okinawa or is it a Japanese thing?

Within organisations like the JKA it may be used for demonstrations, but in Kyokushin and the Korean styles it seems to be part of the curriculum and is used as part of a grading test. Why is it only these styles that use it?

I do have a way of contacting sensei Harada, who was a personal student of Funakoshi, so I may ask to see if he can shed any light on it.

[kansascityshuffle]

Does anyone have any reliable information on the origins of tamashiwara, wood breaking or "trial by wood".

It seems to only be used in Kyokushin and its derivative styles and some of the Korean styles.

I think i've read somewhere that Mas. Oyama invented it, but it was possibly him that brought it into the spotlight.

No offense, but are you really new to Karate? Where do you think Mas Oyama learned it?

I'm sorry for sounding rude..I can't specificy whom or even what "style" started tamashiwara. However, it was done by most practitioners of practically every Okinawan/Japanese style back in the days of Funakoshi, Mabuni, Miyagi, etc.

Many people that barely knew any "karate" practiced tamashiwara. Think of it as how some people own bunching bags today that have no idea or hardly any idea of how to box properly.

Oyama Sosai was a firm advocate of breaking, which is evident by watching old films of his demonstrations. I wish you could show me where you read that Oyama invented it, that's kind of funny to me. That's like telling me Muhammad Ali invented the punching bag.

[moriniuk]

Hello Kansas....... Just for information, I've been practicing karate for over 35 years. So no I'm not new to karate.

Recently whilst trying to find info on the origins of wood breaking in karate I read that Oyama may have "invented" it.

This provoked me to try and find out a bit more.

It seems to be quite difficult to find any early history on the subject.

[joesteph]

Recently whilst trying to find info on the origins of wood breaking in karate I read that Oyama may have "invented" it.

I wonder, Moriniuk, if the author might have meant that Oyama incorporated or developed within his teachings that certain breaks, particularly of wood as it's easy to standardize, had to be able to be performed by his students in order to measure progress in power and focus. Something can be around for many years, but not be systematized, and the first to do so could be credited with "inventing."

[moriniuk]

Ok, let's not get too hung up on the Oyama bit.

I stated that I thought that I had read it, maybe I didn't. Perhaps a better word would have been "re-inventing".

I know that makiwaras were common on Okinawa even for non-karateka, just like non-boxers may have a punchbag for fitness nowadays.

I don't recall reading about or seeing any pictures of woodbreaking being performed in the distant past.

Was it ever performed in China? Did it start in Okinawa or Japan?

[Wado-AJ]

inveted?

nobody "invented" it. It's just human nature to try to penetrate something or to master something or someone.

and for the record, it is "tameshiwari"

perhaps Mr. Oyama was responsible for incorporating it into regular practise or as part of examinations.

AJ

[joesteph]

I know that makiwaras were common on Okinawa even for non-karateka, just like non-boxers may have a punchbag for fitness nowadays.

That's a good comparison.

I don't recall reading about or seeing any pictures of woodbreaking being performed in the distant past.

Paintings in the distant past were quite often beautiful landscape scenes. Drawings of performing the martial arts may not have been common. I've got a copy of the Muye Dobo Tongji, which has as its subtitle, "The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts of Ancient Korea." I purchased it because the founder of my art, Soo Bahk Do, was Grandmaster Hwang Kee, who came across this book when it was already three centuries old, meaning that it's about 350 by now. What is particularly unique about the Muye Dobo Tongji is that it contains drawings of what is described in the text (empty-handed fighting, fighting with weapons, fighting on horseback). There are no drawings of wood-breaking, suggesting to me that that would be something an instructor would teach his students one-on-one.

Was it ever performed in China? Did it start in Okinawa or Japan?

I'm sure it was performed in China as well as the others, Morimuk; I feel that the closest you can get to a starting point is who you believe started it as a system, such as for examination purposes for his students.

[joesteph]

[F]or the record, it is "tameshiwari"

It comes up for both tamashiwara and tameshiwari on the Internet, AJ, and there are some cool videos under each's name. I liked these:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8P4JrGJRHhc

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhtl3oIa2AA

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