My style of MA A is not your style of MA A...

[DWx]

Do you think the (sport) rules that you train under promote a certain style of fighting overall? . . . Because you do spend so much time practicing and working a particular strategy for the sport side of it, when in an uncontrolled fight situation you'd be tempted to fight a similar way.

This is how I feel as well, DWx, and is likely the cause of times of friction in the past, when I did Tae Kwon Do, and in the present, doing Soo Bahk Do.

Combining the two experiences for this posting . . . There's no grabbing, so you can foolishly leave your hands hanging out there, and since there's no grabbing, you who recognize what you can do--but may not--give up on it. If you're chided for using open-hand blocks, even though they fit the situation and you know how to use them, or that you spar like a boxer and not what is in the art, or if you practice tournament-style kicks with regularity, you have spent so much time in this mode that it becomes the only way you can think and react.

Unless you break the rules.

Only if you practice what is contrary to the rules when outside the dojo/dojang, and if you try what works for you whenever possible inside the dojo/dojang and risk admonishment, will you be able to defend yourself in a real-life situation. You won't do as well in tournaments, because your mind is not set that way, and it is possible you will decline to enter them as foreign to reality.

I agree with you on this. This is where I think that if you want to train yourself for both sport and combat then you have to really work to distiunguish between the two and even then one or both areas will suffer. Unless the sport rules are really lenient and allow for anything you're going to be limited in how you fight and this will affect your own "style" overall.

[bushido_man96]

...This is where I think that if you want to train yourself for both sport and combat then you have to really work to distiunguish between the two and even then one or both areas will suffer. Unless the sport rules are really lenient and allow for anything you're going to be limited in how you fight and this will affect your own "style" overall.

I think that it is possible to work into a "happier" medium here. Take TKD sparring, for example. If you plan to train so that you can be successful in the ring and on the street, then you may have to streamline your ring sparring to a point where you have the basic kicks and strikes down to the point that you can score with them, and use various movement strategies to incorporate them in such a way to be successful in sparring. Then, in the street, using these more basic techniques at lower attack levels can help to improve your chances there as well. Then, the only thing you lack is some ground fighting defense, which one would most likely have to supplement in other training. But, if you spend your time on the 360 and 540 kicks in sparring, then that may be what comes to you when its go time in self-defense. These may not serve as well.

I don't know for sure, though. In the end, if you have a good 540 round kick, then you probably have a good back leg round kick to the leg, too.

[DWx]

...This is where I think that if you want to train yourself for both sport and combat then you have to really work to distiunguish between the two and even then one or both areas will suffer. Unless the sport rules are really lenient and allow for anything you're going to be limited in how you fight and this will affect your own "style" overall.

I think that it is possible to work into a "happier" medium here. Take TKD sparring, for example. If you plan to train so that you can be successful in the ring and on the street, then you may have to streamline your ring sparring to a point where you have the basic kicks and strikes down to the point that you can score with them, and use various movement strategies to incorporate them in such a way to be successful in sparring. Then, in the street, using these more basic techniques at lower attack levels can help to improve your chances there as well. Then, the only thing you lack is some ground fighting defense, which one would most likely have to supplement in other training. But, if you spend your time on the 360 and 540 kicks in sparring, then that may be what comes to you when its go time in self-defense. These may not serve as well.

I don't know for sure, though. In the end, if you have a good 540 round kick, then you probably have a good back leg round kick to the leg, too.

Yeah I agree you can do both. However I think even using this method its hard to be the #1 tournament sparrer and the best street fighter at the same time.

You can do what you suggested but even then there will be elements missing from both which may hold you back and stop you from winning the gold or surviving an altercation. Even if you were using the same basic techniques for both sparring and SD there will be differences in the way you use them, like the contact level will be different or the risks you are willing to take to score that last point. Certain things that you do in the ring may hinder you on the street and vice versa. Like the guard I use for my sport sparring is different for what I would ideally use in the street. In competition and sport I know certain techniques are not allowed so I don't bother guarding or even think of blocking somewhere like below the belt. That's an incredibly bad mindset for self defense and something I have to constantly think about when practicing SD skills. Thats where I think that if you want to do both, its really important to mentally make the distinction between SD and sport.

[bushido_man96]

I think that having the same kind of mindset for both your sparring and SD is important to train the two at the same level, as well. Like your blocking example, or the guard that you use, etc.

Of course, in the end, it depends on what your goals are, too. If you are not concerned about sparring for points or tourneys, then your class sparring may reflect that, and so may tournament results, if you choose to enter them. So in the end, it just depends on what you want. And maybe, you spend a few years on tournament competition, and then back off, and focus more on other aspects. After all, we have nothing but time, right?

[Adonis]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7fUZ8DmmWC0

This vid is by Matt Thornton I agree with his point of view on styles/Delivery systems. Some say it isn't the style its the practioner. To a point that is true. However certain styles have certain philosophy's or known training methods that may hinder them.

[joesteph]

[T]he guard I use for my sport sparring is different for what I would ideally use in the street. In competition and sport I know certain techniques are not allowed so I don't bother guarding or even think of blocking somewhere like below the belt.

You've identified something that many martial artists likely also do but don't think about, DWx, and when I say "think," I don't mean it doesn't occur to them at all, but it doesn't have a true impact. It's always been "safe," so a false sense of security comes into play.

That's an incredibly bad mindset for self defense and something I have to constantly think about when practicing SD skills. Thats where I think that if you want to do both, its really important to mentally make the distinction between SD and sport.

You're truly aware, but there's only so much time someone has to train for self-defense as well as a tournament (or, in my case, it's non-contact sparring), the ingrained rules dismiss the real danger of not guarding your body properly, and a real-life situation doesn't have your attacker following the rulebook; he won't be penalized for that "illegal" shot. I try to imagine the situation to be real, and so my guard is up while my opponent's may not be, but it's the right guard for a real-life situation. And returning to time, members of a dojo/dojang are also working towards belt level promotions, meaning time is really at a premium.

I believe that one (either tournament or self-defense) will simply wind up being emphasized more than the other, but not necessarily that one, such as self-defense, need actually suffer, especially if it's a person such as yourself, DWx, who's aware.

Bushido Man made an observation:

And maybe, you spend a few years on tournament competition, and then back off, and focus more on other aspects.

This seems to be the way of martial arts in general today.

[DWx]

...And returning to time, members of a dojo/dojang are also working towards belt level promotions, meaning time is really at a premium.

Time is certainly one of the most limiting factors with regards to MA training. You need time to cross-train, to train sport, to train SD, to work on flexibility etc. In the end everyone has to make choices about what they want to get out of their time and what they want to do.

Bushido Man made an observation:

And maybe, you spend a few years on tournament competition, and then back off, and focus more on other aspects.

This seems to be the way of martial arts in general today.

This does seem to be how it is. Another time thing? Could also be down to the younger generations being more interested in that side of it first and they want to compete whilst they are still fit and able. I know I myself weight my time slightly more to competition than I do to SD but that is because thats what I want to do right now. I love application work and the types of things you get to work with for self defense but given the choice, at the moment, I'd go with the competing. But thats how I want to use my time. Compared to some I don't need SD skills as much, I would never need it at my current job and the current level of SD I have will suffice at the moment.

[bushido_man96]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7fUZ8DmmWC0

This vid is by Matt Thornton I agree with his point of view on styles/Delivery systems. Some say it isn't the style its the practioner. To a point that is true. However certain styles have certain philosophy's or known training methods that may hinder them.

I thought that there were some good points made in there about the delivery systems. Some things in life are fairly consistent, especially when it comes to body mechanics.

[unknownstyle]

Ok, the title is a bit clumsy, but I want all comers in here to discuss it, so I just made up a style. The idea pegs from a piece of a quote made by unkownstyle in the Sweeps thread on page 3:

mma is just one mans collection of many styles techniques. so my system of mma would not be the same as yours.

I think this brings up an interesting concept. It is easy to see in MMA that each fighter has an individual style. Likewise, Bruce Lee stated the same idea. But, can't we translate this to any style of MA, regardless?

I do TKD, a primarily kicking art. I do kick quite a bit, but I don't count it as my strength. I like to get in and punch a lot, and then kick in close as they back away. I don't jump much any more either, but some TKDers do. So, in your style of MA, what "styles" do you see pop up between fellow students and competitors?

i totally agree, nobody does the exact same style. even though me and my best friend are blackbelts in the same system we teach very differently and stress different things. so everyone in a sense has their own style of ma

[joesteph]

I do TKD, a primarily kicking art. I do kick quite a bit, but I don't count it as my strength. I like to get in and punch a lot, and then kick in close as they back away. . . . So, in your style of MA, what "styles" do you see pop up between fellow students and competitors?

i totally agree, nobody does the exact same style. even though me and my best friend are blackbelts in the same system we teach very differently and stress different things. so everyone in a sense has their own style of ma

My primary is punching, with a high guard and getting in there to infight. What kicking I do is usually front kicks and roundhouses that look more like the Muay Thai type than Korean style.

Last night, I sparred against a higher belt who either threw no punches or virtually no punches--I don't remember any. I was able to hammer away, but it's non-contact, so he always had the opportunity to "recover." The only time he was able to shoot kicks was when I tired (the sparring sessions are getting longer), so infighting was more difficult for me, and he was then able, on-and-off, to separate to his kicking range.

I'm not saying my personal style is better, and I do like this sparring partner (he's a good kid), but whatever one's personal style is, no one can afford to be wedded to it that s/he can't defend him- or herself. If I hadn't fatigued, where would that have left him?