Usefulness of the High Block

[joesteph]

I've heard the high block also referred to as the rising block, and it seems to be a karate standard, especially in kata/hyungs. If it's in other arts, I'm not aware, but it might be in some.

A book will have a photo of the martial artist in a front stance, his blocking arm--say the right arm in this case--having risen from his lower abdomen (from the left lower corner there) straight up over his head, his forearm at the appropriate angle, and he can see straight ahead without obstruction. A photo of the martial artist utilizing the block often accompanies the photo of him performing it, and it may be one of blocking a punch, stopping a club-wielder at the arm (i.e., anti-weapon), or both photos might appear.

I've had a discussion now and then about the use of this block against a punch, particularly against a taller man. The using force-against-force argument is one that can't simply be dismissed; it can be that the punch will skim over and hit you right in the face (forehead?), and if it's a taller opponent, the chance of it happening increases.

Is it useful against a punch?

When I took a special course, Street Survival, the instructor taught us an odd--but not unsound--use of this block. Imagine someone is behind you, but at a 45 degree angle from your right shoulder. He grabs your right shoulder with his left hand, pulls you 'round, and strikes you in the face with a right cross. The Street Survival instructor had us practice bending forward at the waist, in a sense "dipping" our heads down, when being pulled 'round. At the same time, while looking in the direction of the pull, the right arm would be raised in this bent-over position to block the incoming punch. If we stood up, we would have performed a "high" block from a nonstandard position. When we practiced it, it worked every time in that bent-over posture.

Do you find the high or rising block useful against an unarmed opponent? Have you used it in the kata/hyung traditional manner? Untraditionally?

[tenshinka]

Hi Joesteph,

Think of this as a motion, and not so much a block...In fact, in Korean you will find that the older translation rendered block (now mahk kee) was once a term called SOO, which means "To Receive", that gives you many more options.

Indeed, the motion has many appropriate striking, and joint locking techniques. But, looking at it from a more basic view point, you will not the angle (usually a 45 degree angle), is so you can receive a strike slowly, and redirect it in an elliptical arc, and continue with some sort of counter, be it a strike, lock, throw etc.

It is important to note that motion brushes across the entire body, it doe not jut cover above the head, this it can "receive" an attack to anywhere from the waist on up, and carry it to a higher level, to diffuse the power of the strike, and then perform your counter.

Many, many applications here...There are not many "blocks" in TSD/SBD, though its not often taught...Its more often advanced covers, and parries, as well as locking, and throwing methods...

fwiw,

--josh

[tallgeese]

As taught in most ma classes I don't have a ton of use for it. None at all actually.

First off, it's not a good tactic agaisnt anything incoming from straight in front of you. Jabs, crosses, you name it. It's arc is too big to effectvely stop these strikes from a determined attacker at full go. It's much more efficient to step and parry or pivot and cover with elbows.

As to its use from overhead attacks, again, as its usually taught I don't see it as very effective. Most classes I've seen teach it as a 90 degree bend or so in the elbow, which seems to be what you're describing. This will either a)buckle as you fail in the power vs power duel or b) you will stop the attack at the arm and have whatever weapon he's using continue on in an arc around your arm until it hits you in the head anyway.

Let's face it. Most any attack coming directly from overhead is some sort of weapon attack. So even if the sheer speed dosen't carry the weapon into your head, a knife held in an icepick grip will stake you anyway, or the blunt force of a club will likely severly damage your arm and impede you efforts to fight further.

I think that an overhead blocking movement is essintal in dealing with weapons attacks. However, I prefer the arm extended slightly from 90, actually, more out towards the 135 degree point (i'm guessing here). Additionally, I always teach this movement in conjunction with an off-line step. This configuration allows you to "shunt" off the force from the overhead attack. It lesses any impact from a blunt weapon and give you some distace in a knife situation. The step, of course, moves you out of the way of the attack somewhat.

This way, your defense is revolving around displacing both his attack and the target that you are presenting.

tenshinka is probibly right about the kata in reagards to the movement, it is likley that it could be utilized in other applications. These seem to always be open to interpertation so I prefer to simply work on those applications directly rather than in kata format. It's preference.

As for the blocking usefulness of this movement, I have to vote in the no catagory.

[joesteph]

It is important to note that motion brushes across the entire body . . . this it can "receive" an attack to anywhere from the waist on up . . . to diffuse the power of the strike . . .

What you're saying here, Josh, is very much like a conversation I had had with my instructor.

She stood in front of me and imitated someone having a disagreement with me, someone who's talking with her hands. My arms were by my sides. She then started to shoot out one of her hands from chest level, demonstrating that the individual talking with his/her hands may have been setting me up. All I really had in my arsenal in that case was the "high" block that was actually a rising one, to move up my body and defuse/deflect the sucker punch hand. The idea wasn't to weakly raise my hand, but to be conditioned to strongly raise my forearm in order to protect myself.

It wasn't what we learned in class; it's more like a "street" example. But what she showed me does follow what you've referred to.

BTW, I also realized it'd have been better for me, in that situation, to have either had my hands clasped hand-over-hand in front of me, or unclasped and up at chest level, palms facing forward.

[Tiger1962]

I think it all depends. Not all applications of karate are effective against street self defense. You could raise your arm to block a strike and if your side isn't covered, you could get kicked or punched in the ribs. ---And if it is protected, then you are basically standing there blocking strikes repeatedly without countering an attack to disable your opponent so you can escape.

IMO a block is most effective when you immediately (FAST) follow up with a strike to injure/disable your opponent so he can't strike again.

[joesteph]

. . . I always teach this movement in conjunction with an off-line step. This configuration allows you to "shunt" off the force from the overhead attack. . . .

This way, your defense is revolving around displacing both his attack and the target that you are presenting.

I think it all depends. Not all applications of karate are effective against street self defense. . . .

. . . basically standing there blocking strikes repeatedly without countering an attack to disable your opponent so you can escape.

IMO a block is most effective when you immediately (FAST) follow up with a strike to injure/disable your opponent so he can't strike again.

Tallgeese, your emphasis with this move focuses on mobility while using it, as opposed to block and then move. Tiger, your emphasis is clear: combine this block (like other blocks) with an immediate counter-attack.

[tallgeese]

Yes, move and counter. Dont' just stand flat with anything.

I think that when done in the manner I describe it's more of a "hard redirection" than anything. I also have a tendency to start the movement with the back of my arm or with the arm slightly deviated so that the back/unlar aspect make first contact withe the appendage holding the weapon. This allows for a less damageing cut if a knife weilder retracts while you're halfway thru the block. The hand is usually open rather than closed. This allows for: 1) faster movement since the muscles aren't contracted and 2) a preloaded grab with which to follow up with on the offending arm.

Again, I tend to think of most overhead attacks as weapon related. In this case, control of the weapon once it's distace gap is penetrated becomes highly desireable.

Anything throw from the front, as said before, in an unarmed method, is more easily parried using another motion.

[ShoriKid]

I was taught a higher point of delivery that went with the other arm coming straight up the middle, back of forearm out. That put both arms infront of your face during the middle section of the block. You get a basic cross with the elbows and the backs of forearms somewhat presented. The inside hand, that is straight up, comes back down for the chamber, the other rotates on up with the fist to elbow line at about 45 degrees. Keeps the shoulder more in socket and stronger and creates an angle of deflection.

You can make the block straight on, and have a wide margin of error with the cross/cover that can take the punches if your timing is off. If your timing is on, you get a light parry from the inner hand on the center line(which protects the nose/center line of the face), and the rise & roll from the outer/blocking keeps things from being force on force and sets up a grab.

Works best with some body evasion and stepping. Tallgeese has it with moving and applying a defense. Most of your traditional defense work a lot better that way, so do others. Belt and suspenders. A parry and cover combined with movement is the way to go.

[Waza]

We were taught to use it as a block-come-strike against over-head weapon attacks, where you step in to the attack and strike to their arm above the elbow... done correctly, I'm told, it can easily break the attackers arm, between the armpit and the elbow. If their wielding a bat/bar (rather than a knife) then that is even more weight that will leverage against them when their arm comes to a sudden halt....

But, to be honest, I would probably be running rather than blocking if I was unarmed and some one was swinging a weapon at me... if there was no one else that needed immediate protection from said attacker

[joesteph]

I was taught a higher point of delivery that went with the other arm coming straight up the middle, back of forearm out. That put both arms infront of your face during the middle section of the block. You get a basic cross with the elbows and the backs of forearms somewhat presented. The inside hand, that is straight up, comes back down for the chamber, the other rotates on up with the fist to elbow line at about 45 degrees. Keeps the shoulder more in socket and stronger and creates an angle of deflection.

Are you saying, ShoriKid, that at one point you form an "X" with your forearms in front of your face? It seems to be that way for a split second, then the forearms separate, with the inside hand being brought back down.