Judo's Unfortunate Ground Fighting State

[marksmarkou]

I wrote an article on my site about how Judo's ground fighting is not what it was and how it should be brought back to its original state.

Id like to hear other peoples views.

Is it boring to see? Does Judo need to start allowing more time when on the ground? Should fighters be penalized for stalling on the ground? etc etc.

[Throwdown0850]

Jigoro Kano's Judo "specilized" in throws and standing techniques.. if you want to see more ground work in Judo then try a Kosen Judo class..

[The BB of C]

I don't know much about Judo. However, in my opinion, I think if it is straying from it's original throwing nature and going towards ground fighting it should be brought back to it's original state. Mainly because the difference of throws and ground fighting is what separates Judo from other Japanese grappling styles. There's already a really popular ground fighting sport. It's called Jujutsu

[bushido_man96]

It depends on what the Judo community wants to see happen with its competition. If it starts to include more ground fighting, then it becomes more like submission grappling, or BJJ competitions. That is ok, but it changes the Judo "game" from its focus now, which seems to be achieving the perfect throw that ends the confrontation.

I do think that Judo should spend the time on the ground in its classes, though. The Judo community shouldn't allow the competition rules to be the sole governing aspect of what is trained. This can be seen in WTF TKD, and it can have a negative effect on the art.

[glockmeister]

Yeah, you don't want Judo to turn into BJJ where it's all about ground fighting. I think that's why they tend to stand things up, they don't want it to just be a grappling match, Judo started as a throwing art.

I also agree that training shouldn't all be competition based.

[The BB of C]

At the beginning of Judo's history, there were two police academies in Japan. One taught Jujutsu and the other taught Judo. They competed and the academy that knew Judo whomped the Jujutsu academy.

[cingred]

As with most martial arts (BJJ included, in the modern day) the root combat art was a complete style in its own context, IE, Ju-Jutsu contained both throwing and locking techniques. To allow the style to move forward, it had to become an ART to be accepted.

Competition is the best way to grow a style. But you will lose the essence of a combat style when you attach rules to it. BJJ is going through the same kind of change now - there are the Gracies which stick to their root style and refuse to support the competition styles that are becoming popular.

Again, learning advanced competition techniques in BJJ are good for the person that is competing and interested in being a high-level competition BJJ black belt.

I am a believer that a teacher should have enough knowledge of the past, present and future to offer the student his choice - training, combat or competition.

[bushido_man96]

At the beginning of Judo's history, there were two police academies in Japan. One taught Jujutsu and the other taught Judo. They competed and the academy that knew Judo whomped the Jujutsu academy.

This is true. However, what made the difference was the training methods that Kano introduced in his Judo. He made randori a full-on event, more like Wrestling is, stripping away the stuff that couldn't be done full speed, and focusing on the throws, pins, and locks that can submit an opponent, but allow him to get up and randori again.

It wasn't really that the Judo was better than the Jujitsu, but the training methodology made the acquisition and use of Judo skills quicker to attain while being more realistic.

[The BB of C]

Exactly. And you know me, I'd never try to imply one style is better than another. But back then, when Judo was in its purest form, they typically trained better than the Jujutsu practitioners and it obviously works so they shouldn't stray away from it.

[kenpo4life]

Fact is that an a self defense modality, Judo is far more complete. In a real fight, if you grab and throw some knuckle-head, he is likely to stick his arm out and dislocate it or something. Fight over. Judo has MORE than enough groundwork for 90% of the population. They dont NEED to specialize in groundwork.

Also, there are a LOT of different schools of judo. A lot of them are heavy on groundwork, especially the Eastern European schools. BJJ is good for what it is about, but Judo covers the entires spectrum of grappling. If you put a judo black belt in a bjj class for a year, he will be up to snuff with groundwork in no time. If you put a bjj guy in a judo class for a year, he will still get thrown on his head by a judo BB. Plus gripping techniques in judo will give a bjj fits if he has clothes on. Look at Royce and Yoshida. Yoshida was passed his prime and never that good in groundwork. He handled Royce in the first fight. He didnt even train in the second and still didnt get finished.