Fighting a bodybuilder

[GhostFighter]

How do you take down someone who has alot big muscles but no real fighting technique cause i dont really think that fighting technique could win over aggression and brawling fighting style when he has simply very big muscles , because just seeing him getting angry is very intimidating.

[tallgeese]

There are a couple of questins about your post that can influence the answer. First, are we talking competive arena or sd? Second, are we talking about taking someone down as in starting a ground fight or taking them down as in ending any threat that they present?

That being said we'll dive in. I'm assuming a sd situation because of the tone of your post. And if we're talking about brawling with him, then we'll go with the "end the threat" scenario.

First off, mentally set yourself to face these guys. That step one. It's ok to be anxious over fighting, but you have to get it in your head that you will not lose to t his guy, no matter what you have to do to him. Set your mindset through him and don't think for a second that you will lose. End of story. That, of course, may not be the case, but that's what your mind has to beleive in order to let your body do what it must to survive.

Now, attack that which muscle and sheer aggression can not protect. Stomps to the outer knee work well, they also limit his mobility. This can be useful if you can play keep away from his aggression. It may gie you the distacne you need to escape. Next, soft tissue that immediatly get results- hit the eyes if you can. If he's untrained he's probibly trying to grab you or haymaker you into dust. Jab at the eyes relentlessly. Finger jabs, thumbs, what ever you can get in there. And do it with convicition. A half hearted eye poke will just send him over the enge angry. If you commit to this, commit fully. Other useful targets to consider are the groin and throat. Don't forget to pull hair, ears, what ever it takes that isn't covered in sheer mass. Never rely on any single of the above tactic to work. Use them all until you can get away. A whole lot of mean behind these weapons will go along way.

Cover, cover, cover from his big shots. Don't let him knock you're head off for free. Last, move. A lot. Cut corners, don't retreat back, look for an escape. As a "last resort" option, consider escalatig to a weapon you have on hand-training prior is key of course as is sufficient knowledge of proper and legal use of force.

Now, if you are asking about acutally taking him to the ground to anwer you question and not discuss the tactical concerns of this course of action, I'd say pull to guard. It will be easier than trying to overcome his natural tools if you don't signifigantly out skill him.

Weight, and more importantly, muscle mass does make a real difference in any encounter. I respectfully disagree with anyone who says it does not. It is a useful attribute that one brings to the fight. Just like agility, cardiovascualr endurance, or skill. It is a factor, just like these. It is very possible to out skill a big man, don't take your own attributes out of the equation. But you are right to assume that it will make a difference. Mindset is often the final contributor to success or defeat though. Work on honing this as well as skill.

[tallgeese]

As to the mindset, I should probibly make one more point. I don't like to think in terms of a "defensive" mindset in these situations. That's fine prefight when we're talking about awarenss and avoidence and possibly verbal confrontation phanses.

Once this starts, your mindset leaves defensive mode and goes to offense. At this point you become the attacker. You are now the predator in the equation, regardless of who initiated the conflict. That's where your mind set will really pay off.

[The BB of C]

Brawling is one of the worst strategies in existance. The last thing you want to do is play his game.

Naturally, his legs (at and below the knee) and his face will be the weakest parts. You can aim for there. Work on your evasion so you can catch him on counters. Work on lunging attacks or perhaps even climbing. Clapping ears is very painful. Hard strikes to the knees and shin. Slamming the blade of your foot into his insteps. Sweeping the legs from under him. Kicking his shins.

I also suggest conditioning your fists, palms and fingers to be able to penetrate his muscles. Most of the time when a strike to the body doesn't work it's because the arm isn't stable enough and the muscles are harder than the bones of your fist. That's how a lot of people brake their hands in fights. Fingers are good for striking vital points like the sides of the neck, behind the ears, into the armpits, but they won't be too effective if his muscles are harder than your fingers. Palms are great for delivering power.

I also suggest training leverage and using his momentum against him. Practice a lot of wrist throws and hip throws.

Understanding that size is one of thousands of factors that determine the winner of a fight is crucial. I can't even begin to explain how little size matters in a real fight. Especially from me, who every fight I've ever won was against someone at least four inches or fifteen pounds bigger than me. Size is only a problem if you let it be a problem in your mind.

Above all - never stop practicing. Just because you can wrist throw someone, doesn't mean you perfected the wrist throw. It can always be better. Just because your shins are as hard as rocks, doesn't mean you won't fight someone who's shins are as hard as lead. Just because your fists can crack through four marble slabs, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who you may have to fight someday that hasn't had five slabs broken on his ribs.

[tallgeese]

"Size is only a problem if you let it be in your mind"

I agree that mindset is crucial. I also agree that skill can work as an asset to overcome size. However, to state that it matters little means I have to disagree.

There are a reason that weight classes are the rule of thumb in boxing, wrestling, and mma. Granted these are sport applications, but given that the goal is to determine the best fighters out there, we should take note that every governing body acknowledges that weight classes are needed to fairly judge this across the board.

Again, it is another assest. But one that can't be overlooked. There's nothing to say that you pop this guy in the eye and he bulls you to the ground anyway. Now you're fighting your skill against his bulk. Yup, you can do it, but it's certainly not as easy as working someone your own weight.

You are right, I feel in stating that practice more and more. More skill equals more of an off setting advantage agaist sheer bulk.

I also tend to see hip thorws as a bad idea given the above situation. Regardless of your leverege, you're now pulling him onto you center. That's more opportunity for him to tie up with you, maybe even pull you to the ground with him. In all likelyhood this is a less than advantagous position. Not to say they shouldn't be in your arsenal in case he forces the position. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be a primary tactic for me...that's all.

[The BB of C]

Funny fact:

Every fight The BB of C has ever lost was against an opponent smaller than The BB of C.

My friend David would be the perfect example of someone we're talking about. He is 240 pounds (pure muscle), he is a basketball player and a bodybuilder, and he is 6'4. That's sixty pounds more than me and six inches taller. However, he's not a trained fighter, which was also part of the question. He did learn boxing a little from his friend and I taught him the basics of getting a power out of kicks.

Because of this very reason he is my sparring parner. I tell him every time "Do not hold back on me and do everything you can to beat me" and he complies. The fights do get pretty intense. Another one of my friends (also a martial artist) was spectating one time and said it looked like he was street fighting me. I've only used a wrist throw on him once, but I've used wrist locks on him several times. I've used spinning sweep kicks successfully on him several times. I've used hip and neck throws on him a few times. I've used finger strikes on his neck and ribcage though I did not use my fingers because they're not strong enough (instead I used the foreknuckle).

Also, should your opponent grab your kick, be sure to use your other leg before he can break the one he has a grip on. That's another technique a lot of people doubt but I have used on a number of occasions.

David grabbed my foot once while I was going for a front kick. I saw him twisting my ankle towards my right so I jumped up with my left and spun right (in the direction he was turning me, he gave me momentum and it prevented my ankle from dislocating). I kicked the side of his head and knocked him out with my left foot.

So whatever you train, some people will tell you to do it or to not do it. Techniques that absolutely don't work in self-defense are few and far between. For the most part it's how and how much you train those techniques.

[tallgeese]

Ok, after reading back a couple of post you comment that "brawling" is a horrible strategy. Sorry about the confustion. Brawling is just another word for a fight. It's not a style, regardless of what some people and commentators would have us think.

Secondly, as to your above post. It's certainly true that littler guys can and have bested bigger opponants. I'm just talking in generalities here and too often I see the opinion that the bad guys size dosn't matter attitude amoung ma'ists. I think it's something that people need to address realistically.

[The BB of C]

Indeed.

[bushido_man96]

I tend to agree with tallgeese on the size matter. One other thing is that I would never assume that my opponent is unskilled. There is a difference between a big guy who never fights and a big, strong, football player who knows how to move a guy off a line, or can run through a tackler coming at him full speed.

I would say that knees should be a primary target for you. You also have to watch if he is wanting to charge you or not. If he appears to be a charger, lunging at you, then work your angles, and maybe try to trip him up; then get away.

[Shoto4Life]

Very simple. Happened to me in high school and after bobbing and weaving several large blows one hard shot to the throat was enough to watch a certain state champion body builder drop to his knees and cry like a baby. Otherwise target the knees. No teeth or nose for liability and ethical reasons.