Japanese style influences on Kuk Sool Won?

[The BB of C]

It is pretty good.

How did your sources obtain the knowledge of how these styles fomulated?

I have spoken with many of the seniors on both sides (HRD, KSW, KSHKD etc) I just made it a personal hobby for a while...The resources are around, you just have to search for them

I wonder, if I were to sit down with In Hyuk Suh, he'd tell me a similar story.

if you looked up kyokushin karate history rather then kuk sool won you would see that the founder of kyokushin Mas Oyama was born in korea, this id where he began his study of the martial arts thus that is probably why it is so similar

I see. That's interesting. Do you think he started training there?

[tenshinka]

I wonder, if I were to sit down with In Hyuk Suh, he'd tell me a similar story.

No, GM Suh, In Hyuk would surely not give you a story resembling anything I said...He is the founder of Kuk Sool Won and that's, what he talks about...He is the founder, etc. etc. His nationalism sometimes gets in the way of the *truth*.

Interestingly enough, his brother, GM Seo In Sun would tell you a similar story (read his stuff on the Kido Hae page)...

if you looked up kyokushin karate history rather then kuk sool won you would see that the founder of kyokushin Mas Oyama was born in korea, this id where he began his study of the martial arts thus that is probably why it is so similar

I see. That's interesting. Do you think he started training there?

Yes, Mas Oyama was indeed a Korean (born during the Japanese occupation), his Korean name was Choi Yong Eui...But if I remember right, he started training in Shotokan, and in Japan at that...The reason the sets of exercises are similar is the simple fact that they are done on most every place there are people, to some extent (everyone stretches). Putting them all together into one exercise is simple coincidence, and has been done by football coaches, and individual athletes as well, as part of their normal work out...There is no lost connection to Kuk Sool with Mas Oyama...He was simply a Korean man, who moved to Japan, later gaining citizenship, who trained and taught Japanese martial arts...

[unknownstyle]

from what i read, he trained goju as well with a korean master and that too could be a good reason. but most jui jitsu styles of Japan have similar stretching

[The BB of C]

So In Hyuk Suh is so patriotic to Korea that he tends to bend the truth when he speaks? Dang. That's not cool. I admire his dedications but that's almost (if not, is) a step towards the deep end.

[tenshinka]

So In Hyuk Suh is so patriotic to Korea that he tends to bend the truth when he speaks? Dang. That's not cool. I admire his dedications but that's almost (if not, is) a step towards the deep end.

Its unfortunate, but it has been the trend of many 1st generation KMA masters (after the occupations ending) to take that route...Can't say I blame them, the Japanese did some pretty bad things to Korea, and Korean culture in general...So there is/was some bitterness to that end.

This just makes it MUCH harder to do good, coherent research though...

[The BB of C]

Oh yeah. Especially when everything I get in a google search of Kuk Sool Won is YouTube videos and websites hosted by instructors that are advertising the style.

[tenshinka]

Oh yeah. Especially when everything I get in a google search of Kuk Sool Won is YouTube videos and websites hosted by instructors that are advertising the style.

Kuk Sool with the WON is a trademarked name, property of GM Suh, In Hyuk. As such, you need to have a TM license from him (WKSA) to use it in any advertising. Kuk Sool WON is not the name of the art, is the Korean name of GM Suh, In Hyuk's brand of KUK SOOl (Won means association, in Korean)...

Thus, anyone NOT affiliated with GM Suh, In Hyuk (and there are many) will not show up under a search for "KUK SOOL WON"...Try searching KUK SOOl, KUK SUL, KUK SOOL HAPKIDO, KUK SOOL KWAN, KUK SOOL HWE, KIDO Hae, etc. etc. etc.

happy hunting!!

--josh

[bushido_man96]

So In Hyuk Suh is so patriotic to Korea that he tends to bend the truth when he speaks? Dang. That's not cool. I admire his dedications but that's almost (if not, is) a step towards the deep end.

Its unfortunate, but it has been the trend of many 1st generation KMA masters (after the occupations ending) to take that route...Can't say I blame them, the Japanese did some pretty bad things to Korea, and Korean culture in general...So there is/was some bitterness to that end.

This just makes it MUCH harder to do good, coherent research though...

This is pretty much the case with many Korean MAs, when you attempt to read the histories of the likes of TKD, attempts are made to link the art to ancient styles like SuBak and Taek Kyon, when there really isn't anything to link to.

TKD has mostly Shotokan origins, with some Chinese influences, depending on the Kwan, and Hapkido has Daito Ryu origins.

[bushido_man96]

Yes, Mas Oyama was indeed a Korean (born during the Japanese occupation), his Korean name was Choi Yong Eui...But if I remember right, he started training in Shotokan, and in Japan at that...The reason the sets of exercises are similar is the simple fact that they are done on most every place there are people, to some extent (everyone stretches). Putting them all together into one exercise is simple coincidence, and has been done by football coaches, and individual athletes as well, as part of their normal work out...There is no lost connection to Kuk Sool with Mas Oyama...He was simply a Korean man, who moved to Japan, later gaining citizenship, who trained and taught Japanese martial arts...

This is how I have read it, as well. The word is he didn't stick with Shotokan for terribly long, but he is know for his foray into the wilderness, where he reportedly did knuckle push-ups on rocks by the thousands every day, and then kicked and punched trees thousands of times each day. It was quite a deal, his excursion. Part of why he was so stocky, and could punch through brick walls.

[SBN Doug]

Been away quite a while, but thought I'd drop my two cents.

Pretty much everything tenshinka has stated is the same information I scraped up as well, and you DO have to scrape.

Remember that KSW is "based" on the three general origins of Korean martial arts (Royal court, buddist, family). Our GM didn't personally learn them this way as they don't exist this way any longer (except the buddist to a certain extent). The history of KSW you read in our books is describing the roots of the techniques, not how they were combined by Kuk Sa Nim.

I usually like to think of it this way. He learned many arts/ techniques from many different masters. Others also learned similar (or same) techniques from the same or other masters. These students began combining what they felt were the best of each technique they learned. Some studied together under the same instructor(s), other learned similar patterns and techniques from others. And, as was stated, many were influenced by more than just Korean martial arts (thought I agree more from China than Japan).

So, you have an intermingling of students that were combining techniques of traditional arts, basically making the first attempt at mixing martial arts. However success, money, prestige, etc. can break apart friendships/ partnerships. And ulitmately, "There can be only one" on top. So, they started breaking away and forming their seperate organizations.

No matter what the actual origin is, I really enjoy my martial art of choice, and have never contemplating leaving it. The fact that I'm 14 years into it, and will begin testing for 4th degree soon and am still learning new material I have never seen before is enough to keep my interest for a long time. It's like a good book, as it keeps you wanting to know what's in the next chapter.

Later....