Punching start point

[Zanshin]

I've never really bought in to the whole "Hiki-te" thing, I think it is misleading as far as performing your classic "Kihon-Tsuki" is concerned.

Forcibly withdrawing the non punching hand imparts a rotation of the hips around the the spine which is wrong.

Instead the "hinge point" of the hips should always be the opposite hip to the arm with which you are punching IMO. If you place too much emphasis on the hikite there is a risk that you will send this hip backward, which will reduce the amount of power you are generating from your hips.

Hiki-te does have its place (ie the pulling of an oponent on to a punch), but again, like the high guard position, it is an application. In Kihon or basic training, it exists purely to place your hand back onto your hip ready for the next technique.

I think it would be a fairly daft karate-ka who squared up to someone with one of their hands on their hip.

I like Tallgeese's approach to training in basics from the high guard position but I would be cautious as to whether this is jumping over the process (of learning how to correctly generate power in a punch) too quickly.

Each to their own, and I may be mistaken but I think the OP question probably related to a "Kihon" type of punch, not one from a sparing guard.

[joesteph]

The traditional method of starting a punch from a draw position (whether on your hip or ribs) comes from the idea of pulling the other hand in to that position while the punch is being delivered. . . .

[T]he "hinge point" of the hips should always be the opposite hip to the arm with which you are punching IMO.

When practicing punches in hyungs, my instructor's teacher introduced me to what she referred to as a "bow and arrow" effect. When about to perform a punch, I raise the non-punching arm up to the middle or high point that I intend to throw the punch to, then fire off the punch with the non-punching arm retracted--to the hip. It does have the feel of putting my body into the strike, but without an exaggeration; I know my shoulders and hips are brought into play but, again, there's no exaggeration--and no loss of balance. My instructor added to it by referring to starting off in "relaxation" and then firing away with "tension."

Again, that's in the hyungs, but the "feel" is there that it's a stronger punch.

In an intro to boxing video I watched on Expert Village, the presenter didn't do as I am doing in the hyungs, of course, but his torso movement seemed to me to have a twist that reminded me of the bow and arrow; his hands were, as expected, where boxers always place them, up high, and they looked like good shots against the focus mitts to me.

[Zanshin]

In an intro to boxing video I watched on Expert Village, the presenter didn't do as I am doing in the hyungs, of course, but his torso movement seemed to me to have a twist that reminded me of the bow and arrow; his hands were, as expected, where boxers always place them, up high, and they looked like good shots against the focus mitts to me.

Exactly, and from a traditional karate point of view, this would represent correct application using good form borne out of correct basics "hyungs?".

[tallgeese]

Ok, here I go seemin dumb agian.. is kihon translated "basics"? That was my understaning. And like I said, I think that hands up is a basic punch. However, if it means something else it could change the discussion quite a bit.

[kansascityshuffle]

Ok, here I go seemin dumb agian.. is kihon translated "basics"? That was my understaning. And like I said, I think that hands up is a basic punch. However, if it means something else it could change the discussion quite a bit.

Yes...but without good kihon, you can't have good Karate. Think of kihon as your base. This is why I will roll my eyes when I see someone on TV that is doing a "kata" where they will do a 720 kick, flip around but can't do a front stance right to save their life.

[doug_kissaki]

A lot of this discussion raises an interesting question for me...

I have taught little kids for several years and I have always taught by teaching starting with one hand on the hip and the other straight out. This is how I was originally taught when I started and have always considered this a "beginners" punch.

However, the discussion has been taking place in my dojo that perhaps this is not the best thing to do. If this method of punching is abandoned in the more advanced stages, is punching from the hip really a basic punch or just an incorrect punch.

One of the head instructors from one of our dojos in England has begun teaching children (4 - 7 year olds) without using a draw hand and has been having some very good success.

Opinions? (I assume we have a lot of instructors on this board)

[tallgeese]

Again, I think starting to train the way you are going to fight at the earliest stage possible is impariative. All my students start with the hands up. Even my daughter has been taught since the start to keep her hands up. It's not advanced, it's-in my view- part of the basics of striking. You can teach good mechanics with the hands up.

[Zanshin]

A lot of this discussion raises an interesting question for me...

I have taught little kids for several years and I have always taught by teaching starting with one hand on the hip and the other straight out. This is how I was originally taught when I started and have always considered this a "beginners" punch.

However, the discussion has been taking place in my dojo that perhaps this is not the best thing to do. If this method of punching is abandoned in the more advanced stages, is punching from the hip really a basic punch or just an incorrect punch.

One of the head instructors from one of our dojos in England has begun teaching children (4 - 7 year olds) without using a draw hand and has been having some very good success.

Opinions? (I assume we have a lot of instructors on this board)

IMO just because it forms part of your Kihon or basic training, does not mean that your classic "Jun-tsuki" is a just a beginners punch. In most traditional dojo that I have trained in, it is usually the first technique that is practiced during every training session, and is done so by 8th kyus up to 9th dans.

This is because it is fundamental to most traditional systems of Karate.

Brings different results.

[Throwdown0850]

training/kata- fists palms up under rib

sparring- high guard like boxer.

[bushido_man96]

I like Tallgeese's approach to training in basics from the high guard position but I would be cautious as to whether this is jumping over the process (of learning how to correctly generate power in a punch) too quickly.

It isn't really jumping any processes. Like tallgeese mentioned, it is a basic form of training, but just different from the basic training of Karate.