Punching start point

[northerndragon]

September 5, 2008

 

Anyone here have a hard and fast rule about the starting point of ALL their punches?

 

If so, where's it beginning?

 

This question is not about "where" one throws a punch or what "kind", I'm strictly asking what , if any , is the BEST starting point.

 

• Some schools, like Seido, start their punch at chest level: at or nearby the armpit. Anyone practice this way?

 

• Some, like Shotokan and the Shitoryu sensei I talked with, start all their punches at the hip. Specifically directly above the hip, fist inverted prior to firing. Anyone prefer this practice?

 

Sidenote:

 

I'm not asking this question to invite demeaning answers about "why I asked" or "what's wrong with my question" > which I notice seems to occur here on this forum. Granted, the vast lineages and styles of people that visit here and post here, this quandary is bound to happen when someone from one lineage/style addresses another lineage/style's question.

 

I put that sidenote out there just to make it clear, I'm not asking to have any answer evolve into a ''you're wrong'' , ''you're uneducated'' sort of scenario.

 

That being said, I look forward to what folks think is the most efficient starting point, anatomically and physiologically speaking of course.

 

au revoir!

[joesteph]

Anyone here have a hard and fast rule about the starting point of ALL their punches?

If so, where's it beginning?

This question is not about "where" one throws a punch or what "kind", I'm strictly asking what , if any , is the BEST starting point.

In Soo Bahk Do, the usual starting point in hyungs and punching exercises is at the sides, between the ribs and the hip, at what I call just touching the top of the belt. The fists are palms up, and the punch is a complete turn to palms down. I remember when I took Tae Kwon Do years ago, the instructors had us with our fists resting on the belt, the palms facing inward, and then the punch would go out to full turn/palms down. I've found the Soo Bahk Do starting point to be more comfortable than the Tae Kwon Do one I learned years ago. I also have a greater tendency to start the punch correctly; by that I mean that I would sometimes, in Tae Kwon Do, have my palms down in the start position, so that when I punched I didn't actually turn them, they were already in the "finish" position at "start."

If you're talking sparring, Northern Dragon, the other students in my class tend to have their hands either in a "forward" boxing stance, which I used to do, or even in a "low" position, which I never did. From a few cardio-kickboxing classes, and now the cardio-kickboxing DVD I use, I keep my hands up right by my face and fire off from there for sparring--or even punching BOB.

[Zanshin]

September 5, 2008

 

Anyone here have a hard and fast rule about the starting point of ALL their punches?

 

If so, where's it beginning?

 

This question is not about "where" one throws a punch or what "kind", I'm strictly asking what , if any , is the BEST starting point.

 

• Some schools, like Seido, start their punch at chest level: at or nearby the armpit. Anyone practice this way?

 

• Some, like Shotokan and the Shitoryu sensei I talked with, start all their punches at the hip. Specifically directly above the hip, fist inverted prior to firing. Anyone prefer this practice?

 

Sidenote:

 

I'm not asking this question to invite demeaning answers about "why I asked" or "what's wrong with my question" > which I notice seems to occur here on this forum. Granted, the vast lineages and styles of people that visit here and post here, this quandary is bound to happen when someone from one lineage/style addresses another lineage/style's question.

 

I put that sidenote out there just to make it clear, I'm not asking to have any answer evolve into a ''you're wrong'' , ''you're uneducated'' sort of scenario.

 

That being said, I look forward to what folks think is the most efficient starting point, anatomically and physiologically speaking of course.

 

au revoir!

Hi northerndragon,

Which way does your instructor teach you?

I ask this as there a numerous options and possibilities available to you and you shouldn't ovelook any. Point is though the punch starting points will vary according to what you are using it for and also the purpose of training.

The classic "kamae" for a karate punch (in basics) is fist up on the hip, as it is part of a process that allows the karate-ka learn the essentials of movement, timing and correct form. This is only an exercise, but with practice you will be able to apply the same principles to any punch with any start position. I have heard it said that there are only two types of punches, and the rest are derivatives.

[tallgeese]

Ideally, from a high guard position with both hands covering the head/face area. Never, intentionally, from anywhere lower than a high coverage position.

[bushido_man96]

In TKD, we start the palm up, tight up under the ribs.

Ideally, I prefer tallgeese's method, from the high guard, like a Boxer.

[Zanshin]

In TKD, we start the palm up, tight up under the ribs.

Ideally, I prefer tallgeese's method, from the high guard, like a Boxer.

The first way is a training exercise, the second is application.

They are both equally valuable IMO.

[bushido_man96]

In TKD, we start the palm up, tight up under the ribs.

Ideally, I prefer tallgeese's method, from the high guard, like a Boxer.

The first way is a training exercise, the second is application.

They are both equally valuable IMO.

I agree, as long as the transition is made.

[Zanshin]

In TKD, we start the palm up, tight up under the ribs.

Ideally, I prefer tallgeese's method, from the high guard, like a Boxer.

The first way is a training exercise, the second is application.

They are both equally valuable IMO.

I agree, as long as the transition is made.

Of course, and thats the tricky bit.

[tallgeese]

It that "tricky bit" part of this that makes me train almost exclusively from a hands up position. Everything else is just confusing.

I've heard the argument that the hand being low is actually a kata movement for pulling you adversary into a strike or joint manipulation. I think that this may very well be true, and as I've seen it demonstrated, makes the most sense.

However, in todays world, I don't see the need to hide the fact in kata. Just work that particular application with your training partner. If training on your own, which I do a fair amount of, either focus on other skills or physically rehearse the movement in total.

Just my two cents on why I keep the hands up both in training and application. It cuts the transition falability out of the equation.

[Zanshin]

Well each to their own of course, but personally I think their is great value in learning how to step and punch in the "traditional manner".

Maybe tallgeese, you are an experienced karate-ka so it is appropriate for you to train your preferred way now, however I would hazard a guess that you did a fair few "traditional" Jun-tsuki in your time.

As far as the "tricky bit" goes, you are right, there is plenty of room for error, however, I am going to bang my "trad" drum now and say that if you stick with a good system, you will automatically improve your chances.

It takes time though, and perhaps thats a price that some people today dont want to pay.

Z