Doing a side kick the "right" way

[Rateh]

I think the confusion comes in whether "side kick" is seen as a descriptive term, or a noun. To most people I've spoken with "side kick" is a specific NAME for a specific kick, not a description of a type of kick. As is front kick, round(house) kick, back kick, axe kick, etc. I'm sure they started out as descriptive terms, but nowadays they are used as nouns.

Now I've never trained in a school that uses names other than english for techniques. But every one that I have trained in, used the term side kick to reference the same thing. Whether it be thrusting or snapping.

[Jim Hew]

To clarify… The Side Kick was done as a straight thrust kick , striking with the heel. No knife edge. I recall being taught to think of having a pirate’s peg leg instead of a foot (the heel being the bottom of the peg) and drive it through your target.

A jab kick (not “jabbing” kick) is it’s own animal, done both as a Thrust and as I recall sometimes with a more snapping quality. Best I can describe, is it’s like a front thrust kick, turned on it’s side… or a side kick, striking with the ball of the foot.

It’s been a while, and I hope I’m getting it all correct.

Let me know if you want me to, and I’ll try to get Mr. Stark or maybe even Mr. Shaw to chime in on the Forum to comment and answer any questions.

Let me know.

Jim

[JusticeZero]

Well, my style omits side kick. But say, a roundhouse kick (martelo) is generally a martelo whether it's snappy, spinning, done from the floor, or jumping; the mechanics aren't the same as, say, mea lua de frente (outside crescent) to a degree where things break if they are, for instance, switched haphazardly in a sequence drill. In the same way, a front kick done to the side works very much differently from an honest-to-gosh kick radiating from the side of the hip straight down the plane of eyes-spine-hips-heel with knee aligned with the body, that is, a side kick.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I think the confusion comes in whether "side kick" is seen as a descriptive term, or a noun. To most people I've spoken with "side kick" is a specific NAME for a specific kick, not a description of a type of kick. As is front kick, round(house) kick, back kick, axe kick, etc. I'm sure they started out as descriptive terms, but nowadays they are used as nouns.

Now I've never trained in a school that uses names other than english for techniques. But every one that I have trained in, used the term side kick to reference the same thing. Whether it be thrusting or snapping.

Found a clip. I have no idea who this guy is (apart from the fact he is a Japanese Wado instructor based in Brazil), and obviously he is teaching / explaining the kata at a slow speed.

But... at 0:36 the kick he performs is a side kick - and you can clearly hear him say "Yoko geri".

Then.. later at 1:21 he performs a front kick - and you can hear him say "maegeri".

They appear to be the same kick, and although their mechanical properties are very similar, they have a different purpose - in relation to the techniques / movement they follow and also precede.

And yes tg, I understood every word he said and even got something out of it - which is kinda nice to know. If I fancied travelling to Brazil to train in a Japanese MA, I could still learn something new, even if there was no words of English spoken.

WNM

[joesteph]

I think the confusion comes in whether "side kick" is seen as a descriptive term, or a noun. To most people I've spoken with "side kick" is a specific NAME for a specific kick, not a description of a type of kick. . . .

But every one that I have trained in, used the term side kick to reference the same thing. Whether it be thrusting or snapping.

A noun. Yes.

Rename the horizontal knee kick that strikes with the ball of the foot the Alpha Kick. It can be performed forward, at a 45 degree angle, or to the side. It's always executed the same way.

Rename the vertical knee kick done with a thrust the Beta Thrust Kick. It can only be performed to the side. Rename the vertical knee kick done with a snap the Beta Snap Kick. It can also only be performed to the side.

Instead of fancy names, the original descriptive term is used when we say front kick or side (thrust or snap) kick. The noun has a name that we share in order to differentiate between kicks and, like Rateh, anyone I've ever spoken with used the term side kick to mean the same thing, including being more specific if need be by saying thrust or snap.

If I'm infighting, and I execute a "rising block" to strike my opponent under his chin, even keeping my "rising block" there to press against his throat and step forward to shove him back, everyone knows I used my forearm in a particular manner, "blocking" nothing. Describing it to another person, I would be free to say, "I used a rising block, got him under the chin . . ." and it would be understood.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Hi Joe,

Maybe the linguistical difference and traits of traditional Japanese ma (and therefore its pedagogy) are too complex to convey over the ether, so I will concede that, for the purposes of this thread.

In my experience however, the language used in "Japanese" Karate can vary between specifics like "Sunegeri" (Sune = shin and geri = kick, so bobs your uncle shin kick), and phrases that have more of a metaphoric relationship with the term/action.

To successfully use metaphors in ma like karate requires interpretation. Interpretation is after all what the likes of Mr Abernethy with his Kata Bunkai is doing and, this is perhaps what (in part), differentiates martial art from simply self defence.

WNM

Edited May 2, 2009 by Wa-No-Michi

[bushido_man96]

From what I have seen in my TKD practices, the technique classifications are more specific. Side kick is done with the foot horizontal, parallel to or pointing slightly down toward the floor. Front kicks are with the knee held vertically, and lower leg down below. However, the tool used can be the heel, the instep, or the ball of the foot.

I think my point is that one shouldn't be bound by a particular "classification". I am not suggesting that the way your school teaches the kick you are describing is not good, or correct for that matter, but the OP's question was "what is the correct way to perform side kick". I knew what he/she was alluding to, but the whole thread has rung a bell with me because you, (bushi, joe, tg) seem to have to have a rather "fixed” idea of what a side kick / kick to the side is, and therefore always performed. That doesn’t sit too well on my karate register.

I don't see anything wrong with having a "fixed" idea as to what a specific kick is. I just like to have a streamlined terminology so as not to develop confusion in training.

What many styles have labeled a "round" kick, Bruce Lee coined as a "hook" kick in his styles. I don't like the change, and if I trained in JKD or the like, I would have a hard time calling a round kick a hook kick, because I already do a hook kick, and to me, it isn't a round kick.

In my world of functionality, I would like to think that I can use every part of my body in anyway biomechanically possible as a weapon. Yoko geri in front kick foot position that I describe may not fall into the "kihon" of the typical western karate school, but it is there in the kata and kumite elements of most decent styles I can assure you.

Just because I don't identify the "front kick to the side" as a side kick, doesn't mean that I don't find it functional, or that I don't use it. Our style has the kick in several of our forms; its just called a front kick. But, its a front kick to the side.

Well, I guess if all you are after is training to achieve a basic ability to kick and punch you are absolutely right. If however you really want to try to understand what makes the specific system of ma you train in truly function, what it’s “MO” is, then you are better served trying to understand the reasoning behind the theory.

Just because I don't choose to delve into the language of a style, doesn't mean that I have only degraded myself to "punching and kicking," nor does it mean that if one chooses to study to learn soley how to punch and kick is doing a disservice to everything that an art has to offer. Reasoning, theory, and understanding of an art can come from just the physical practice and exchange with oneself or other practitioners, as much as it can from learning a small segment of a foreign language.

The theory is often derived from historical/cultural reference points and so therefore an understanding of the language(in terms applicable to ma/karate), its construction, its origins and therefore its meaning, will give you a distinct advantage if you are trying to understand the true depths of an art imo.

Brian, as a fellow medieval combat enthusiast, I bet you know and understand what a “Mordstreich” is, and I bet it conjures up some great visions in your head.

WNM

I could look up the term "mordstreich" and find out what it is, but I can't tell you off the top of my head, although the translation "murder strike" coming to the front of my mind.

I'm not so concerned about the German name of a strike, but more of the applications and uses of the strikes and blocks of Medieval Combat. Therefore, I haven't delved into language study, but combat study.

[Wa-No-Michi]

No skin off my nose matey

Nothing wrong with trying to broaden ones horizons though maybe?

WNM

[Jim Hew]

Hey Dudes,

sounds like the classic state of "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" (Shakespeare)

It's what it IS that matters, not what it's called... you know, a kick is just a kick - until it's something more.. Then, that too will become just a kick.

[JusticeZero]

Sure.. but until then, it helps to have names so you can explain the mechanics without having to engage in a lot of 'you know, that one where you F, G, and H..? You do I on that one, but not the one where you do Q, R, S, and T..'