Worn/Frayed Black Belts

[wouldbemaster]

I suspect if I'm right the combination of blood stained gi and your user name on this forum written on your belt might have emphasised the run any reaction.

[Killer Miller]

LOL, I never looked at it that way - but I think you're right... My user name was the nick-name that was given to me by fellow Karate-Ka, and I do recall one instance of walking into a dojo and the class of about 45 went dead quiet, turned their head, and hearing whispered "oh #%!*, that's Killer Miller."

I also recall another instance sitting at a Denny's with two other fellow black belts, and about 3 booths down were a table of guys of another local karate group saying "don't mess with those guys, they are killers of a secret elite group." We could hear their conversation, acting like we hear nothing, and doing everything to not drop on the floor laughing.... We were the nicest bunch of guys you would ever meet - but we did bounce a friends bar when things got out of hand and got pretty crazy at times, maybe that's where that started...(?)

- Killer -

I suspect if I'm right the combination of blood stained gi and your user name on this forum written on your belt might have emphasised the run any reaction.

[Sensei_Suzy]

In my dojo there are not too many with extremely worn black belts. My sensei, who is 6th dan, still has his original black belt and it's basically white. He also has a rokudan belt that he usually wears, and a newer plain black belt that he wears when we go to seminars as a sign of respect to the Kyoshi and Hanshi that are there.

My black belt, though not very old, is starting to wear a little where it knots but that doesn't make it any better or worse than another belt. Most of the black belts in the school where I train have 2 belts, one for training in the dojo (usually made by Shureido) and a less expensive one that they wear to the beach when we have beach classes and tests.

I agree with what was said, that the belt is merely a piece of cloth. The belt does not hold the knowledge you have gained over the years of training. Why then, is my sensei's first black belt looked at in such awe at times?

I think this is because the worn nature of some black belts carries an idea. A lot of work was put into obtaining that belt, and a lot of work was put in while wearing that belt. The awe is not so much the belt itself, but the idea that it's worn appearance signifies someone that has trained for a long time and has a lot of knowledge to share if they wish to do so.

[barefoot-kohai]

Hello everyone,

Before saying anything, this is my first post in this forum, so please, if something is not right or not appropiate, please tell me.

I decided to post, because I find this subject (belts) very interesting.

Apart from dojo rules (sensei-set: this means that is a must), I've always prefered focusing these subjects from a personal point of view (and luckily I've had the chance of doing so). I'll explain myself:

It's true, a belt is just a (n essential) piece of cloth, with the poetic mission of holding together both sides of your gi, and avoiding an uncomfortable dropping of your zubon (throusers).

Anyway, I'm letting myself some drifting...

A belt (his color), define (nowadays) karate-ka's grade of achievement and expertise, but in my opinion, the whole thing goes beyond this simple appreciation.

In my dojo (well, not mine... the dojo where I practise), long ago, we used to say that black belt was a heavy burden. Black belts have the chance of practising more advanced techniques and staying in the first ranks in class, but also have to "give example" to lower belt rank students and honour his rank: they must be a model. We also said that "a white (or low) belt student is always protected by his belt": a black belt trying to go too far (or just boosting) with a white belt student is something considered (at least in my point of view) disrespectful to the white belt as a person, and dishonourable to his own belt (also dishonourable to the sensei if he/she allows this things happening in his class)

I never believed in black-belt-worshiping: each person has to be treated with respect and respect must be deserved: either white belt or tenth dan have to be treated in the same way and equal respect. I find something disgusting when a black belt karate-ka treats disrespectfully a white belt only because he is a black belt: a black coloured obi may mean that this person is a tecnically more advanced karate-ka, but not necessarily a better person. Keep an open mind, you may learn a lot from lower-rank belt karate-kas. My teacher used to say : "Watch your students, you will learn a lot from them".

I think that the personal attatchment to a particular obi, earned with effort, given by a particular master, or "inherited" from a respected or beloved person, depends always on inner reasons: in my case, when wearing a particular one I feel that I'm not alone in my do. Passing a belt from one person to another is not just passing a piece of clothing or feelings: it means passing your heritage in it.

I like to think about the colors of the different belts in the following way:

The belt is like a piece of paper where any karate-ka writes his history. At the beginning the book is completely white and pure. As the karate-ka advances in his way, he "writes" his knowledge in his belt. The belt once white, turns yellow, then green... and darker. A time arrives when he has a lot of knowledge and this "paper" once white, has turned black.

But a black belt is not the goal: It's just the starting point of the do. During all the time you have had kyu-ranks you have learned how to walk, how to jump, how to rest and how to survive: You have learn the alphabet, then the words, then how to make sentences. The black belt means that the karate-ka is mature enough to begin his (personal) way. He has to put together all the knowledge he acquired and start discovering and developing his personal do: he that knows how to write sentences has to discover how to write paragraphs, then texts and finally books: The karate-ka has to express himself through his art. This means, in some way, detatching yourself (not forgetting) from all the things that does not fit in your do: things written in "your paper", keep falling as you advance in your way, as the years go by, and as your belt is turning again white and pure, as you karate should be.

Returning back to earth:

Personally I prefer cotton belts (I'm not very keen on silk - I find them rigid, unconfortable, and sometimes pretentious) and they (cotton) do not turn white as they get worn.

Normally, I'm wearing my rank-belt in class: I have the right to, and I must do it. Anyway, when I'm training in my own, I'm very attatched to an old white belt... just sentimental... and more comfortable.

Best Regads

barefoot-kohai

PS: Sorry, I'm not an English-native

[masterphoenix]

I was just reading an old post from March 2003. I did not like the responses about wornout Black Belts...it bothered me that people would insist on replacing a worn belt before it breaks. I think in old school ways. A frayed belt is an honorable thing. Hanshi Del Saito is 8th Dan (SHito-Ryu) and his belt is so worn it is almost white. What an accomplishment! I am so awed by him and have had a couple classes with him. He is a humble man wearing a humble belt...

All the money in the world would not make me buy a new belt. Unless it snapped from wear...I would like to keep my first BB until I cannot train anymore. Even if I someday achieve Renshi, I do not want to wear a flashy new BB with all the embroidered kanji. Just a humble BB is good enough for me.

I would never let my belt hit the ground as well. It is dishonorable (IMHO). Accepting that kids shed their belts when they train is way disrespectful. And washing it, forbidden...I feel that your spirit would be washed away.

Any opinions welcome...no bashing please.

Just ranting,

Osu!

Pete

Shodan-Ho Oct 4, 2008

I agree totally... we were taught that the worn out belt symbolizes a return to innocence, a sort of mindfulness of the dangers of arrogance and "full cup syndrome." The highest honor we could achieve was not a certificate, but a black belt worn completely white.

You need good quality belts for this so they don't dry rot (I had one do this), and you have to make sure they aren't using brown filler, but we've never had any problem. I always chuckle when people tell me I need a new belt, and I have another chance to explain our traditions.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Wear your belt out! Never wash it. Unless you left it in your gym bag sweaty and it stinks then wash it. Just don't make it habit. BJJ belts come off during sparring all the time so it's common for our belts to be on the floor. lol And as far as my spirit being washed away... the belt is symbolic, my spirit remains.

[sensei8]

Hello everyone,

Before saying anything, this is my first post in this forum, so please, if something is not right or not appropiate, please tell me.

I decided to post, because I find this subject (belts) very interesting.

Apart from dojo rules (sensei-set: this means that is a must), I've always prefered focusing these subjects from a personal point of view (and luckily I've had the chance of doing so). I'll explain myself:

It's true, a belt is just a (n essential) piece of cloth, with the poetic mission of holding together both sides of your gi, and avoiding an uncomfortable dropping of your zubon (throusers).

Anyway, I'm letting myself some drifting...

A belt (his color), define (nowadays) karate-ka's grade of achievement and expertise, but in my opinion, the whole thing goes beyond this simple appreciation.

In my dojo (well, not mine... the dojo where I practise), long ago, we used to say that black belt was a heavy burden. Black belts have the chance of practising more advanced techniques and staying in the first ranks in class, but also have to "give example" to lower belt rank students and honour his rank: they must be a model. We also said that "a white (or low) belt student is always protected by his belt": a black belt trying to go too far (or just boosting) with a white belt student is something considered (at least in my point of view) disrespectful to the white belt as a person, and dishonourable to his own belt (also dishonourable to the sensei if he/she allows this things happening in his class)

I never believed in black-belt-worshiping: each person has to be treated with respect and respect must be deserved: either white belt or tenth dan have to be treated in the same way and equal respect. I find something disgusting when a black belt karate-ka treats disrespectfully a white belt only because he is a black belt: a black coloured obi may mean that this person is a tecnically more advanced karate-ka, but not necessarily a better person. Keep an open mind, you may learn a lot from lower-rank belt karate-kas. My teacher used to say : "Watch your students, you will learn a lot from them".

I think that the personal attatchment to a particular obi, earned with effort, given by a particular master, or "inherited" from a respected or beloved person, depends always on inner reasons: in my case, when wearing a particular one I feel that I'm not alone in my do. Passing a belt from one person to another is not just passing a piece of clothing or feelings: it means passing your heritage in it.

I like to think about the colors of the different belts in the following way:

The belt is like a piece of paper where any karate-ka writes his history. At the beginning the book is completely white and pure. As the karate-ka advances in his way, he "writes" his knowledge in his belt. The belt once white, turns yellow, then green... and darker. A time arrives when he has a lot of knowledge and this "paper" once white, has turned black.

But a black belt is not the goal: It's just the starting point of the do. During all the time you have had kyu-ranks you have learned how to walk, how to jump, how to rest and how to survive: You have learn the alphabet, then the words, then how to make sentences. The black belt means that the karate-ka is mature enough to begin his (personal) way. He has to put together all the knowledge he acquired and start discovering and developing his personal do: he that knows how to write sentences has to discover how to write paragraphs, then texts and finally books: The karate-ka has to express himself through his art. This means, in some way, detatching yourself (not forgetting) from all the things that does not fit in your do: things written in "your paper", keep falling as you advance in your way, as the years go by, and as your belt is turning again white and pure, as you karate should be.

Returning back to earth:

Personally I prefer cotton belts (I'm not very keen on silk - I find them rigid, unconfortable, and sometimes pretentious) and they (cotton) do not turn white as they get worn.

Normally, I'm wearing my rank-belt in class: I have the right to, and I must do it. Anyway, when I'm training in my own, I'm very attatched to an old white belt... just sentimental... and more comfortable.

Best Regads

barefoot-kohai

PS: Sorry, I'm not an English-native

A very solid post!

[KumitePanda]

shihan takahashi's BB is almost a peice of string!!! and when you come off probation at my dojo takahashi gives you your belt with your name embroided on it in japanese.

[shotokan-ste]

ok im relatively new to martial arts,im in my mid 30's,and ive took up shotokan karate,but im proud of my belts that i have been awarded,granted im a green belt so ive not graded that much,i have kept my belts apart from my yellow belt(club asked me to pass my belt to another student).i dont think theres anything wrong in someone taking pride in there gi/belts

[RJCKarate]

This is just from my personal experience whilst training with a variety of Okinawan senior sensei, and also from my couple of trips to Okinawa.

The belt is a piece of material. It is to be washed if it becomes dirty, or even if you want to just soften it up so it ties better - I had first hand experience of this.

Secondly, a belt holds your gi together, it's nice to fold it up and not drag it on the ground so it doesn't get dirty, but if you toss it over a sofa, or place it on the floor until you do something, I've never found that to be a no-no in Okinawa - of course you should not just leave it there, but that's just general tidiness.

Wear around the edges of a black belt is the most I've seen, occasionally a thread or two might start to come off, or the belt will start to fade, but I've not seen one that is completely white, it is always replaced.

Once again, this is my first hand personal experience from the limited world of Okinawan Karate that I have seen.

But, in the end of your day, if your sensei/dojocho says don't do something - don't do it.

I would like to make a general comment on peoples idea of 'you should never wash your belt'. Japanese and Okinawan are both very, very clean cultured people. It is imperative we clean our gi, clean our body, cut our nails, clean the dojo - why would you never wash your belt? I'm not saying every week, but I give mine a courtesy wash every once and a while - I've never read anything that I could source on good authority to tell me otherwise (no individual should take offense to that statement).

I think a lot of these traditions come from Western countries who 'assume' about things. The belt is like the Samurai's sword, it represents honour, and whatnot - but sometimes, things really are...as they seem and it is just a belt, nothing else.

I realise that this is becoming a long post, so sorry! - this is the last thing I will add. The belt system is a relatively new innovation. It was brought into Judo when belts weren't like what we have today, when the senior Judo students were awarded with a black belt - it was not from it turning dirty, it never has been - this, for sure, is a myth.