Empty your Cup...

[bushido_man96]

Just out of interest Bushido-man, do you consider Tai Chi to be a Martial Art?

Here is a thread on Tai Chi that you may find of interest: Tai Chi and Combat Effectiveness

[Wa-No-Michi]

Just out of interest Bushido-man, do you consider Tai Chi to be a Martial Art?

Here is a thread on Tai Chi that you may find of interest: Tai Chi and Combat Effectiveness

Good thread thanks for letting me know about that.

Indeed I know that Tai-Chi does have Combat applications - all styles of MA do other wise they wouldn't be "Martial".

But I still think the old folks in the park doing the slow forms are not just doing it for the sake movement. They are doing a Martial art as well. Even though there is no immediate Martial /Combat intent (or SD application) at that particlar instant.

Or perhaps there is?

[Wa-No-Michi]

I'm not sure if I posted this elsewhere, but that's a mission statement that's so convoluted I can barely follow it.

Really?

What's not to understand?

Aikido in this group is not taught / promoted as a self defence system.

But, the study of it will engender good skills that will naturally improve your ability to protect yourself.

Its more of a useful bye product however, rather than the primary reason to study it.

I don't think that this makes it right, though.

Maybe not for you, but clearly it is for this group. Each to their own as they say.

I think of Aikido as a self-defense art. I feel that someone who claims to teach a Martial Art in the way that the mission statement you posted states, then they are using a misguided definition of the term Martial Arts. I practice Aikido also, but with a self-defense attitude and mindset. I have even made cross overs from the Aikido class into my Defensive Tactics training. I think it is the way that Martial Arts are designed to be.

Interesting you should choose the word "mindset" to describe the way you approach you Aikido practice, particularly as (as understand it), you are fairly new to it.

The expression "empty your cup" is epitomsed by the japanese word "shoshin" or beginers mind, which is sort of the exact oposite of having a mindset.

Just my thoughts, but if it works for you then go for it.

[bushido_man96]

I think that having a mindset is important, though. I am not going in with my Hapkido mindset, where I am thinking "ok, I know all this stuff, but here we will approach it differently." I am approaching it with the mindset that this stuff will help me learn more self-defense.

Now, I am not forsaking all of my other knowledge, either. Things like how to move efficiently, etc. But, if they show my something different, then I will work on it, and accept that it has some value. Then, I can take what I know about combat movement, and see where it fits in.

I won't be totally mindless, but I won't go pushing my knowledge around, either.

As far as the Eastern ideas of not having the mindset to begin with, well, as many here already know, I have never been much for Eastern thought processes. They are great for some, but just not for me.

[Wa-No-Michi]

As far as the Eastern ideas of not having the mindset to begin with, well, as many here already know, I have never been much for Eastern thought processes. They are great for some, but just not for me.

Cool Maybe your Aikido training may change your thoughts. Who knows

[bushido_man96]

Hehe...not terribly likely, but we'll see....

[joesteph]

[A]s many here already know, I have never been much for Eastern thought processes. They are great for some, but just not for me.

I've read other postings by you, Bushido Man, that touch on what I would call Western thought vs. (friendly vs.; no butting heads) Eastern thought. I find that I can read, even appreciate, a certain amount of Eastern philosophy, but I'm really a Westerner. My study of philosophy, of Western thought, of a Westerner's mind-approach, has been far more satisfactory to me than Eastern. A friend from the past, with whom I used to do Taiji, was very open to Eastern thought, more from readings, though, than any visit; he'd never visited that part of the world.

I guess that's why when we speak of ki/chi/tan tien/chi kung/feng shui, etc., I see them to a point (like ki/chi), but I have a limit on what my mind will accept. (I wonder if a "true" Eastern mind looks at the Western and reacts the same way; too foreign?) Is it our upbringing? Our society? Our experiences in life? I believe that, in many ways, we are the sum of our experiences, and those experiences that helped shape me were Western.

How Westerners can think Eastern (and vice-versa), I don't have an answer for.

[moriniuk]

With regard to the martial aspects of Tai Chi.

I agree that the vast majority of practitioners today practice Tai Chi as a form of exercise.

Many of these people, particularly in the west, are unaware that it was ever a martial art.

But how different is the practice of a Tai Chi form to the practice of a karate kata? In Tai Chi many of the movements relate to throws, trips, locks etc instead of strikes.

I think it depends on your mindset during practice. Without any martial intent, both are merely movement similar to dancing.

Anyone who has ever practiced Tai Chi with a competent instructor will be in no doubt as to its effectiveness in certain situations

The practice of push hands can sometimes resemble a wrestling match.

Tai Chi opened my eyes a lot with some of its principles and concepts and I have carried this over both into my Karate and Muay Thai.

Try practicing your karate katas like a Tai Chi form, feel all of your muscles working together as you move and see how bad your balance may be.

[bushido_man96]

But how different is the practice of a Tai Chi form to the practice of a karate kata? In Tai Chi many of the movements relate to throws, trips, locks etc instead of strikes.

I think it depends on your mindset during practice. Without any martial intent, both are merely movement similar to dancing.

I agree, to an extent. I think in the end you have to trying to decipher the martial applications to make it Martial Art. Again, I look back at the cardio-kickboxing analogy. If you do cardio-kickboxing with martial intent, it still doesn't make it a Martial Art.

[bushido_man96]

[A]s many here already know, I have never been much for Eastern thought processes. They are great for some, but just not for me.

I've read other postings by you, Bushido Man, that touch on what I would call Western thought vs. (friendly vs.; no butting heads) Eastern thought. I find that I can read, even appreciate, a certain amount of Eastern philosophy, but I'm really a Westerner. My study of philosophy, of Western thought, of a Westerner's mind-approach, has been far more satisfactory to me than Eastern. A friend from the past, with whom I used to do Taiji, was very open to Eastern thought, more from readings, though, than any visit; he'd never visited that part of the world.

I guess that's why when we speak of ki/chi/tan tien/chi kung/feng shui, etc., I see them to a point (like ki/chi), but I have a limit on what my mind will accept. (I wonder if a "true" Eastern mind looks at the Western and reacts the same way; too foreign?) Is it our upbringing? Our society? Our experiences in life? I believe that, in many ways, we are the sum of our experiences, and those experiences that helped shape me were Western.

How Westerners can think Eastern (and vice-versa), I don't have an answer for.

Yep, I'd say you're spot on here. I have been doing things and seeing things the Western way for so long, that I don't see myself changing. And, I like our Western ways and philosophies. So I stick to them.