Do you need an instructor?

[Throwdown0850]

I think the most dangerous fighter, is the untrained fighter.

Dangerous, how? In what ways do you mean? Just curious.

I think tori is saying it because the untrained fighter would be unpredictable?? I think...

[joesteph]

I think the most dangerous fighter, is the untrained fighter.

Dangerous, how? In what ways do you mean? Just curious.

I think tori is saying it because the untrained fighter would be unpredictable?? I think...

There's an old video I remember by Peyton Quinn, called "Self-Defense Against the Sucker Puncher." In this video, he considers the sucker puncher to be extremely confident, that he's punched out someone's lights before, and he has no reservation in him about doing it again--to you. He's called a sucker puncher because his attack is unexpected; you could be minding your own business and not even have made eye contact with him, then Wham!--from out of nowhere he's thrown his strongest shot at you. He doesn't think about getting into trouble with the law, he's been there before; he doesn't hold back, he's conditioned himself (untrained as self-trained, self-disciplined?) to fire that first shot full blast; he has no thought of career, relatives, or standing in the community to make him realize that a fight shouldn't even happen or, if it does, go so far and no more.

Quinn does point out weaknesses, such as that the primary attack is the same, that "haymaker" (is that word still used?) that throws all his force into one opening shot. He will also likely have telegraphed his move by his windup, and if you're quick, you're ready for him.

Predictable and unpredicable together.

[bushido_man96]

I think the most dangerous fighter, is the untrained fighter.

Dangerous, how? In what ways do you mean? Just curious.

I think tori is saying it because the untrained fighter would be unpredictable?? I think...

I was wondering if that was his thought or not. Very well could be.

There's an old video I remember by Peyton Quinn, called "Self-Defense Against the Sucker Puncher." In this video, he considers the sucker puncher to be extremely confident, that he's punched out someone's lights before, and he has no reservation in him about doing it again--to you. He's called a sucker puncher because his attack is unexpected; you could be minding your own business and not even have made eye contact with him, then Wham!--from out of nowhere he's thrown his strongest shot at you. He doesn't think about getting into trouble with the law, he's been there before; he doesn't hold back, he's conditioned himself (untrained as self-trained, self-disciplined?) to fire that first shot full blast; he has no thought of career, relatives, or standing in the community to make him realize that a fight shouldn't even happen or, if it does, go so far and no more.

That is all good information to keep in mind. Very good point, and a very viable idea in response to my question to Tori. I think you might be right. I deal with guys like these on a daily basis (thankfully, they are usually behind the bars). I know of several of them that really feel as though they have nothing to lose, and wouldn't think twice about trying to drop someone when they are not looking. We always have to be aware.

By the way, the term "haymaker" is still used. At least, I still use it.

[Bushido-Ruach]

I think that if a person is studious and intelligent, and utilizes common sense and has a training partner...I think that a person such as this can train himself in MARTIAL SCIENCE. Let me clarify this.....

If one desires to train himself in self-defense and is studious and intelligent enough to figure things out, he can teach himself about body mechanics, weak areas of the human body, and ways in which to deliver strikes and defensive techniques so as to be able to protect himself. If he trains himself in blocking and self-defensive drills until they are second nature, and he is applying himself in improving his technique...even possibly by getting knowledge about different kinds of techniques from different kinds of traditional styles, he can be very good.

Now the question I would have is this.....how many individuals have this kind of energy and mental acquity to be able to study the human body and the way it works, and then come up with on his own with the various kinds of striking techniques with which to maximize his training? In the past there have been people like this otherwise we wouldn't have martial arts today.....but those days were when people had to think in order to survive. Today, in this quickie gratification society that we live in, we don't have to think to survive, and look where this has taken us to!!!

While I think it is possible to train yourself, I also think that an intelligent individual would seek out others within the martial arts community in order to better their training.

[tallgeese]

I agree with you bushido. The only disagreement with you is a minor hair splitting point about the term martial science.

The term science in there denotes that given a specific set of variables the same outcome will occur each time. We all know that this dosen't happen during a fight. With each attack, even the same gross motor attack, with t he same defensive movement used to counter, the outcome can vary greatly. There are too many tiny variable that can change each time because of the lack of control exerted over the entire situation. Thus, each pratitioner will have to flow from movement to movment to gain this control, altering the outcome and path of the conflit. Often, this occurs many times during an encounter.

It's each individual's unique training, mindset, and creative response to these variables that continue to make the martial arts "arts" rather than a science.

[bushido_man96]

If one desires to train himself in self-defense and is studious and intelligent enough to figure things out, he can teach himself about body mechanics, weak areas of the human body, and ways in which to deliver strikes and defensive techniques so as to be able to protect himself. If he trains himself in blocking and self-defensive drills until they are second nature, and he is applying himself in improving his technique...even possibly by getting knowledge about different kinds of techniques from different kinds of traditional styles, he can be very good.

I think this as well. I am not saying that it isn't a long road to hoe, but it can be done. As with anything, though, it is easier to seek those that have gone before you, and learn from them.

[Bushido-Ruach]

I agree with Bushido-man on his point.

Also, Tallgeese, just to clarify my meaning, when I say martial science I'm not so much referring to scientific repeatability as I am to the "science" (or studying the knowledge of) body mechanics...

To wit: the best way of performing a ridgehand, for example, that the targets and angles of striking those targets with the ridgehand. The body mechanics of how the opponent's body reacts to being struck at a certain point, and the mechanics of your strike (bone, muscle, tendon position and the power created), things of that nature.

I totally agree with your assessment, but I just wanted to make sure ya'll knew what I was talking about....sometimes I assume things that I really shouldn't.

Hasta!

[cross]

This is a fairly open ended question. Do you need and instructor.... for what? To learn self defense, to achieve black belt in a particular system, have a reasonable amount of skill in a certain system? I continue to train under instructors and with a group of likeminded friends, both ways work for different reasons, it all depends on your goals.

[tori]

Bushido, sorry to get back so late with my response to your question.

An individual who has never been trained to fight, does not care where his strikes land. He/she does not care what the outcome of a potentially dangerous strike could be on their opponent or what might happen should they become unconscious and fall to the floor.

An individual who is trained to fight, is usually the one not letting himself get into a situation where he/she has to fight. However, if that fighter does have to defend himself, he/she hopefully will only do enough to diffuse the situation and get out of there.

I label those individuals who use only books and dvd for self defense training in the same catagory as the untrained fighter. I feel that they have a false sense of self-confidence and can put themselves at risk for injury.

Now I'm not saying that someone who has years of training in one or several styles could not buy a dvd on self defense and benefit from its teaching, I am only talking about the person who has never had anyform of guided, one on one instruction.

[bushido_man96]

Bushido, sorry to get back so late with my response to your question.

No problem! I'm glad you got to it.

An individual who is trained to fight, is usually the one not letting himself get into a situation where he/she has to fight. However, if that fighter does have to defend himself, he/she hopefully will only do enough to diffuse the situation and get out of there.

I disagree with your assessment here. I believe that each trained fighter makes his own decision on whether or not they try to avoid a fight or not. The level of training as far a technique has no effect on this. Only their personal beliefs and philosophy.

I label those individuals who use only books and dvd for self defense training in the same catagory as the untrained fighter. I feel that they have a false sense of self-confidence and can put themselves at risk for injury.

I have a different viewpoint here as well. I think that if they are focusing and practicing on making these training materials work, and they work on applying them in different situations, then I think the are a trained fighter. They may not be as well trained, but they are still training, in a sense.