Karate Ni Sente Nashi-There is no first attack in Karate...

[Zanshin]

This is a very popular mazim in Karate and other MAs. How do you interpret this maxim, and how does it affect your training?

I don't interpret it literally. I don't feel that an MAist should wait to be struck before acting. In fact, if a strike is being thrown, then it should be evident that there was likely a level of danger already present to relegate a pre-emptive strike.

I wanted to hear what everyone else felt about this ideal in MA training.

I agree with you 100% Bushi.

I heard an interesting story with reference to the origins of "karate Ni Sente Nashi":

It goes along the lines that as Karate grew in popularity when it was first introduced into mainland Japan (Funakoshi and co), the authorities grew concerned that Karate could get out of hand, particularly following reported incidents of unofficial Karate competition on street corners etc.

The KNSN became a sort of Karate "Slogan" in an attempt to clean up its perceived image amongst the Japanese public.

You also have to bear in mind that Karate came to Japan from Okinawa and at the time (and still to an extent today), the mainland Japanese looked down their noses at anything Okinawan, particularly when it came to a martial art. After all, Japan already had a very rich heritage of Budo, and this new Okinawan art of Karate would almost certainly lack in the refinement of such arts as Kenjutsu and Jujutsu.

Karate was coarse, crass even, so it was an image "up-shift" more than anything else.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Zanshin

[bushido_man96]

That is an aspect that hadn't occured to me, Zanshin. Initiating such a "policy," so to speak, is a good idea for controlling the actions of others.

[Zanshin]

That is an aspect that hadn't occured to me, Zanshin. Initiating such a "policy," so to speak, is a good idea for controlling the actions of others.

And mitigating your responsibility for them.

[bushido_man96]

Ah yes, very true.

[joesteph]

There's an article that quotes Gichin Funakoshi as having said, “Karate ni sente nashi.” In karate, there is no first attack.

It's title is "Law of Self-Defense: Doctrine of Unclean Hands," and starts off with a firearms case. It then moves to the Funakoshi quote, and goes into the martial artist as being held to a higher standard under the law. The URL is:

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/peter_hobart_law_of_self_defense_doctrine_of_unlean_hands/archives/709

It offers a link to another article, "How Your Duty to Retreat From a Threat Can Limit Your Self-Defense Rights," and a quote from the article says, "Pennsylvania is a retreat jurisdiction. In 1996 its Superior Court found that: 'Although a person is afforded discretion in determining necessity, level and manner of force to defend one’s self, the right to use force in self-defense is a qualified, not an absolute, right.'”

The URL is:

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/645

Of the two, I found the second article more on-target to the concerned martial artist.

[bushido_man96]

I'm not sure about the MAist being held to a higher standard bit. I think that usually, it is something more akin to the card a defense attorney will play to the jury.