How would you deal with this?

[Shinta]

People who like to "chop wood" are great training partners as long as you don't play their games.

Try to avoid their attacks both by blocking or simply by (moving in order to escape) and make sure you seize every opportunity to throw your attacks without worrying about power (even if I believe power should be there) - this is as close as you'll get to street fighting inside your dojo. No need for you to start "chopping wood" as he will get frustrated pretty soon... Then you will just regret that he quited that soon...

[unknownstyle]

my policy has always been that however hard you hit someone is how hard you will be hit. im a blackbelt and i dont care what rank you are, the point of sparring is not to hurt your opponent but if they leave an opening to remind them why they should protect themselves.

i have this problem all the time because im not a very strong looking person, its mostly from new students trying to find their place in the pecking order and what better way than to beat up a blackbelt. and i dont really try to hurt them but i will not let someone try to steamroll me

[joesteph]

Not having anything said to him, Shoto, may be misinterpreted as permission, even agreement. Sometimes, saying nothing may be misinterpreted as approval.

Continued silence on your part is working against you.

Objectively, the student should feel free to speak with the other student, and an understanding is reached. I take it this has gone on for awhile; sometimes, when something has been going on for a bit without something being said, it can actually become awkward to bring it up.

You have the freedom to speak with him first, or to your instructor first. You might speak with your instructor first, that your partnering-up with this individual be "observed" by your instructor, and, when the individual "chops wood," an admonishment to him individually or to both of you--in the form of a reminder about excessive force--may be delivered by the instructor, right there on the spot.

Please let us all know how it turns out, Shoto.

[Shoto4Life]

It’s funny how people respond. That’s assumptive and silence is your enemy.

Adding to intrigue we are both green belts and adults. Also from what he said my assessment was dead on!

Please, not to be a jerk but people please pay attention and read the post. This is a sequence in which we are forced to leave our hand out as part of a simulated kumite. This is the only reason why I complain. Its not getting hit it’s getting hit while defenselessly holding the arm out that got me. This is not semi or free kumite! For those that don’t know what kumite means it means sparring. Its an attack then a block and counter. It’s a stiff forced set of movements for testing. Also I had addressed him twice on his contact level. There wasn’t a silence or a lack of non verbal communication.

Updates - he has come to class once since that I attended. We didn’t have to do kumite but we practiced certain moves which lent well to my skills. The teacher that day one of the three we have applauded my skill and I think it sort of changed his opinion of me. I haven’t seen him since.

Also, to add, I returned after like a 7 years absence to train with a different dojo. I think he felt like I was on outsider and sort of felt like he was ahead of me even though I was present at his rank exam which placed him at my level and a black belt told him that I was still considered his sempi. This was also like 5 months before the issue started occurring.

Also I asked one of the sensei’s and not my favorite one about it and he said suck it up. It only happens every so often anyways. Even though that was a jerk thing to say it’s really true. We are learning to fight and getting some bruises does come with the territory!

[bushido_man96]

I look at it this way: if you have to stand and take a shot, he will have to stand there eventually too....

[tallgeese]

The "get what you give" concept works just as well with drill work as it does with sparring. Pop him a few and he'll get the idea- sparring or not.

[unknownstyle]

well in that case i see nothing wrong with hard contact to the arms, if my students approach me with that i would tell them to suck it up or make him feel what you feel. if i ever told my instructor that i felt the contact was to hard to my arms he would personaly beat my arms until i couldnt use them anymore

[joesteph]

I don't really care for, as I interpret some postings, "take it like a man" and "give it back as hard as you got" approaches. The right way is supposed to be, IMHO, to speak with the person first; if no satisfaction is reached, then speak with the instructor.

If you've knowingly signed up with a school that prides itself on how rough it is (like hiring a bodybuilding trainer known for "animal workouts"), then there's no recourse other than to follow the concepts I've referred to in the first sentence or choose to leave. But if that's not what you signed up for, and there's been no evidence that that's the kind of dojang it is, then what I've stated in the second sentence applies.

After I'd been tutored in Isshinryu by a friend, and we did a lot of contact, I signed up for TKD that was non-contact, meaning dan members as instructors, and my friend hadn't reached dan level in his art. I would now be attending actual classes in a dojang, learning hyungs, and doing non-contact sparring with different people. We did what I call the "sitting duck" practice moves, that you throw the lunge punch and remain in place while your partner practices blocks and counters.

As a white belt, I was paired off with a black belt that I still call a bully. He struck hard at my outstretched arm with knife hands and palm heel smackdowns as blocks, hitting the bones just right to give me a good sting before his non-contact punch. I switched my punch from the twisting fist to the vertical (thank you, Isshinryu), and his blocks lost their sting. He was doing the same thing, but hitting a different area, one that could take it. I'm not supposed to have to do that, accommodate his lack of control; what of others who didn't know this "trick"?

Before we switched so that it would be my turn, I began to tell him off. I wasn't yelling, but my voice was firm and it carries. I told him right out that I didn't care for knife hands and palm heels (which I lifted an arm up to show him with my hand what each one looked like) as blocks, and that the (I call it a "soft block") approved block was what we were supposed to be using. (It was a block using the back of the wrist.) The instructor came over and jokingly said to me that he would pair me off with someone who was "less of an animal." I told my instructor no. I was fine. I clearly remember saying, "I'm not afraid of him" while looking the dan member in the eye. The instructor said something to the effect of OK, walked away, and now it was my turn.

I did every block correctly, according to what was considered the correct way (the back of the wrist), and while I did throw punches, all were to his face; I also did spearhands to his eyes, and "joint knuckle" spearhands to his throat. He likely wondered where I'd gotten this knowledge, and I wasn't offering him info about my previous MA tutoring. At the end, I received no apology (of course), but he never bothered me again. (Easily accomplished, as we were never paired off again.)

I fault the instructor here. (There was a second instructor, his wife, but she worked individually with students; he handled the "en masse" instruction.) I believe this dan member had gotten away with bullying all along, but others were either intimidated by his size (big fellow) or his rank, or were too reserved to speak with the instructor. Was the instructor never aware? When it was obvious that the black belt was using my arm and therefore me, a white belt, as his personal punching bag (and I am no one's punching bag), it would have been correct to take the dan member aside and speak with him, or speak with him in front of me to remind the both of us about exercising proper control.

I still stand by speaking with the individual first; then, if no satisfaction is reached, approach the instructor--who, if a true professional, applies the rules of the dojang to the problem at hand.

[Adonis]

Strike first, strike hard, No mercy sir!

[Shinta]

Nice post Joesteph!