ChangWuJi Posted June 21, 2002 Posted June 21, 2002 Training for street confrontations is very intense and quite different from training for competitions, even the Extreme fighting competitions that seem to be very popular lately. For the street we have to create training scenarios that will send the adrenals into overdrive. What Geoff Thompson created, to this end, was Animal day and Progressive sparring (any range allowed). Training for reality is essential if we are to stretch ourselves physically and mentally, and prepare for a real encounter. This is not to say that training, other than reality training, does not have its benefits. Off course it does. We must alter our workouts to prepare for different arenas. For instance, when I trained for my Vale Tudo fights I concentrated more on ground fighting, as most extreme fighting ends up the floor. If floor fighting is what you are after then Vale Tudo type training is probably the nearest you can get. People often feel that extreme fighting is as close to reality as you get. And it is quite close if you were preparing for a match fight, though it does lack basics such as biting and eye gouging. We include the former and the latter in our training. Whilst this may be controversial in some quarters, to us it is an essential part of preparing for an encounter where biting and gouging is not only allowed, it is in the job description. In this sense, the pavement arena is an entirely different world to the Extreme fighting competitions. Also, street defence carries many consequences that the ring does not, police involvement, comebacks, killing, being killed etc. This is why we need justification as our ally before we enter into a street situation. Where the street differs again is that ground fighting would not be the range of choice (not mine any way). Grappling can be dangerous outside because it is very unlikely in this range that you'll be able to deal with more than one person at a time. If your attacker has friends (he normally always will) there is a strong possibility that you'll be fighting them all (sometimes even people watching will join in). This could prove fatal, and only the inclusion of the aforementioned biting and gouging will save the day. In today's society we have to depend more on the devastating art of Geoff Thompson's 3 Second Fighting than we do on grappling - though off course grappling is a great support system. Most situations are 3 second fights. This is where a fight starts with some kind of aggressive dialogue and progresses to a physical attack. In the 3 second fight the pre-emptive attack (attacking first) is the order of the day. In this arena you either hit first or you get hit. This is often the difference between winning and losing. To train for the 3 second fight we predominantly work on pre-emptive strikes. This is where reality lies. We work with focus mitts for single, accurate strikes. The biggest punch will have no effect if it does not land on the target. We treat the focus pad like a real person, we talk to it and ask it a question before striking, (this is to engage the brain, the set up, or what Geoff and Peter Consterdine would call the action trigger). We train only a few punches, but we train them to perfection so that under pressure the technique holds up. It is not about accumulating techniques, this can often create a log-jam. Instead we put all our effort into making a few techniques our own, so they become second nature in a pressure situation. The last thing we want is to find our self lacking when all that lies between us and a good beating is reliable, pressure tested technique. As the Sumo say 'cry in training, laugh in the arena.http://www.geoffthompson.com/articles/article_reality_training.htm "There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level."
cross Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Thats another great example of Geoff Thompson's street smart thinking.
ValeTudo Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 A couple of comments jumped out at me.. Perhaps someone can clarify? For instance, when I trained for my Vale Tudo fights I concentrated more on ground fighting, as most extreme fighting ends up the floor. If floor fighting is what you are after then Vale Tudo type training is probably the nearest you can get. I looked him up on Sherdog. No record of him ever competing in a professional Vale Tudo fight. Any one know what he's talking about? People often feel that extreme fighting is as close to reality as you get. And it is quite close if you were preparing for a match fight, though it does lack basics such as biting and eye gouging. We include the former and the latter in our training. Whilst this may be controversial in some quarters, to us it is an essential part of preparing for an encounter where biting and gouging is not only allowed, it is in the job description. How exactly do they incorporate eye gouging and biting into the training? Are you actually gouging someone's eyes out during sparring? Or, is it one of those, "practice it on a non-resisting partner" things? Just seems like there wouldn't be too many people that trained in this system for very long if they were getting their eyes gouged. Anyone know how exactly they train this?
cross Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 You make some good points. I don't remember him ever competing in vale tudo contests either but it may have happened. Has for biting and eye gouging i guess they practice the movements for the techniques without actually doing it. i.e stoping to fingers just short of the eyes. They may also practice on a heavy bag or other training equipment.
Treebranch Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 If you want to train for the street go to a bar and pick a fight with some crazy biker. That's how you train for the street. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
cross Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 Thats true.... the most effective way to train for somehing is to do it... even though its not the best way to have a bit of fun and get fit... hehehe
Treebranch Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 Yeah, I don't think being so preoccupied with getting into a street fight is a good thing. Training should be enjoyable and should give you a sense of release so that you won't go beating people up on the street. I could understand if we all were back in the days when people were attacked by bandits at every turn to train that way. We leave in a pretty civilized society today comparatively speaking of course. I'm more worried about someone shooting me than I am in getting into a street fight. Most people are wussies and only talk a big game, but when it comes down to it they don't really want to fight. They just want to intimidate you. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
cross Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 Thats correct... many people are so worried about getting into a confrontation that they never leave the house or go out and have fun. Most people don't want to get into fights on there night out. Unless you annoy them then thats your fault. Or if they are intoxicated at which point the best defence is to walk away hoping that they will be to drunk to follow you.
Warp Spider Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 How exactly do they incorporate eye gouging and biting into the training? Are you actually gouging someone's eyes out during sparring? Or, is it one of those, "practice it on a non-resisting partner" things? Just seems like there wouldn't be too many people that trained in this system for very long if they were getting their eyes gouged. Anyone know how exactly they train this? Eye-gouging you can practice if you were to wear safety goggles while sparring. Biting you could practice as long as you don't bite hard. On another note, I've been saying this same thing in many threads, that competitions like UFC are not realistic because the ground is padded and doesn't hurt nearly as much to get slammed down on, you can't wear shoes, which you normally would have on in a real fight, (strongly alters the effectiveness of kicking) no gouging or biting is allowed, as mentioned in the article, and it lacks the suddenness that the initial attack in a real fight often has. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
iolair Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 I wonder how Geoff Thomson would do at UFC? Currently: Kickboxing and variants.Previously: Karate (Seido, Shotokan, Seidokan), Ju Jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Fencing.
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