Online Training to study other arts?

[bushido_man96]

I think cross training is a good thing. I think it's fine in a pre-blackbelt setting as well. And really, there are things that some systems do better than others, you might as well learn them as well if you're interested. I think mastery is a term that really has too many subjective meanings to worry about too much. The bottom line is, are you capable of applying what you learn to defend yourself. Multiple ranks in different arts just makes you a more well rounded fighter. Heck, forget ranks, just the training time spent in another style makes you better.

I tend to agree with tallgeese here. I do think that mastering an art or system can take a lifetime; learning effective self-defense should not. So, in the end, your goals are what determine the route of your journey. If you would like to master Karate, then focus on it, and devote your life to it. If you feel it is one piece to the whole of your training, then branch out. However, I would caution for a bit of moderation here....I wouldn't want to really just take a piece here and a piece there and then put it all together. But, looking at a standup style, and perhaps a ground style, can help to even things out, and not spread yourself too thin.

[Zanshin]

I will take a slightly differnt approach to training than those above, respectfully.

I think cross training is a good thing. I think it's fine in a pre-blackbelt setting as well. And really, there are things that some systems do better than others, you might as well learn them as well if you're interested. I think mastery is a term that really has too many subjective meanings to worry about too much. The bottom line is, are you capable of applying what you learn to defend yourself. Multiple ranks in different arts just makes you a more well rounded fighter. Heck, forget ranks, just the training time spent in another style makes you better.

As to blending, again, I vote go for it. The goal is to make you the best martial machine you can be. To accomplish this, you may need to integrate different aspects of several arts to best compliment your physiology and mindset. This will allow you to become an individualized fighter.

The key to multiple arts and their personal integration is repetition and constant testing. Do the movements work? Can you do them under stress without thought? In the long run, answering these questions and expandingyour repitore will increase your survival chances in a conflict.

Hi tallgeese,

As always you make your point very well.

Indeed, it will always be a priority for some to have as many martial techniques available to them as posible, and the best way to do this is to cross train I suppose.

If you ask a range of people as to why they practice martial arts, you will get a range of responses: - Fitness, self defence and sport, tend to be some of the initial reasons as to why many start and inteed they are not bad reasons at all, in fact they are the right reasons.

Trouble is, for me there has to be more than that now. True Budo (Martail Way) should and does have more depth than just aquireing as many combatitive techniques as possible. It needs to challenge you, and yet bring a sense of order into your life.

It needs to have great depth IMO, but then again I only study Japanese MA, in which a greater emphasis is placed on detail rather that quantity.

Horses for courses though, but if you want to benefit from MA your entire life, my advise would be to apply yourself to a good system (with a good Instructor) and train in it religiously.

[tallgeese]

Thanks zanshin.

There is something to be said for getting what you want out of a ma. One should find that path that most fits what he wants and/or needs out of the arts. Certainly, there are plenty of paths to pick from.

I tend to look through a soley combative lens and disregard other aspects. I need to remember that not everyone is "bottom line".

[bushido_man96]

Trouble is, for me there has to be more than that now. True Budo (Martail Way) should and does have more depth than just aquireing as many combatitive techniques as possible. It needs to challenge you, and yet bring a sense of order into your life.

It needs to have great depth IMO, but then again I only study Japanese MA, in which a greater emphasis is placed on detail rather that quantity.

There is something to be said for getting what you want out of a ma. One should find that path that most fits what he wants and/or needs out of the arts. Certainly, there are plenty of paths to pick from.

I tend to look through a soley combative lens and disregard other aspects. I need to remember that not everyone is "bottom line".

The thing is, that neither of you are wrong. The deal is, we all have different goals in the arts, and can achieve them in different ways. Whether our goal is depth and mastery, or the "bottom line," as long as it is our goal, and what we actively seek, then each of us can get the depth that we want out of it.

I highlight the portion above, because I think it is important to understand that not all Martial Arts or Ways come from the Orient, and therefore, there will be different viewpoints on mastery across cultures.[/b]

[Zanshin]

Trouble is, for me there has to be more than that now. True Budo (Martail Way) should and does have more depth than just aquireing as many combatitive techniques as possible. It needs to challenge you, and yet bring a sense of order into your life.

It needs to have great depth IMO, but then again I only study Japanese MA, in which a greater emphasis is placed on detail rather that quantity.

There is something to be said for getting what you want out of a ma. One should find that path that most fits what he wants and/or needs out of the arts. Certainly, there are plenty of paths to pick from.

I tend to look through a soley combative lens and disregard other aspects. I need to remember that not everyone is "bottom line".

The thing is, that neither of you are wrong. The deal is, we all have different goals in the arts, and can achieve them in different ways. Whether our goal is depth and mastery, or the "bottom line," as long as it is our goal, and what we actively seek, then each of us can get the depth that we want out of it.

I highlight the portion above, because I think it is important to understand that not all Martial Arts or Ways come from the Orient, and therefore, there will be different viewpoints on mastery across cultures.[/b]

Well; tallgeese and I are probably viewing karate through the same prism albeit at different angles (at least thinking wise) and I guess that's why we are sort of both right!

Actually Bushi, as usual you are quite right with your "doesn't have to be oriental" view as martial is martial at the end of the day.

However, I would respectfully suggest that to many people, Karate (which is an oriental art), is a way of applying a different mindset (or approach) to training as much as anything.

At the end of the day fighting is fighting, you can't escape that but, what I love about the whole "budo" concept is that it is fighting, or training to fight, with added meaning.

Don't get me wrong, the great Karate masters did not "by-pass" the combative reasons to learn how to fight (they could not afford to), but the key is how they "offset" or balanced their martial training in a way that would improve them (or us as students) as a human being(s).

That's where we (in the west) miss the point, me thinks .

Bushi - conditioned mindset through training is the key!

Let the fireworks start

Z

[Zanshin]

Also,

Could I be really pedantic and state the obvious, IE this is a "Karate" forum - "kara" meaning empty/open (of mind (or China depending on reading)) and "te" meaning fist/hand.

It's not a boxing or wrestling forum although bits of it are and good luck to them.

Ultimately Karate IS a Japanese/Okinawan art. Taught properly Karate can (and will) give a lifetime of fulfillment.

But only if you train with the correct mindset.

Just think of Mr Miyagi.

[bushido_man96]

Also,

Could I be really pedantic and state the obvious, IE this is a "Karate" forum - "kara" meaning empty/open (of mind (or China depending on reading)) and "te" meaning fist/hand.

It's not a boxing or wrestling forum although bits of it are and good luck to them.

Ultimately Karate IS a Japanese/Okinawan art. Taught properly Karate can (and will) give a lifetime of fulfillment.

But only if you train with the correct mindset.

Just think of Mr Miyagi.

A lifetime of fulfilment can come from taking up Boxing or Wrestling as well.

Also, if you look at the original word Kara Te, there is nothing within adding a mental aspect of training, until the addition of the "Do" at the end. In truth, the idea of Do was not always present in the Oriental MAs, and is a more recent addition as the styles came to be used less on the field of battle, and more by civillians.

Bujutsu became Budo. It wasn't always so. Hard work, dedication, and integrity are not soley garnered through MA study. Truly, many hard working individuals grow up with these characterisics without ever setting foot inside a dojo.

[Zanshin]

Also,

Could I be really pedantic and state the obvious, IE this is a "Karate" forum - "kara" meaning empty/open (of mind (or China depending on reading)) and "te" meaning fist/hand.

It's not a boxing or wrestling forum although bits of it are and good luck to them.

Ultimately Karate IS a Japanese/Okinawan art. Taught properly Karate can (and will) give a lifetime of fulfillment.

But only if you train with the correct mindset.

Just think of Mr Miyagi.

A lifetime of fulfilment can come from taking up Boxing or Wrestling as well.

Also, if you look at the original word Kara Te, there is nothing within adding a mental aspect of training, until the addition of the "Do" at the end. In truth, the idea of Do was not always present in the Oriental MAs, and is a more recent addition as the styles came to be used less on the field of battle, and more by civillians.

Bujutsu became Budo. It wasn't always so. Hard work, dedication, and integrity are not soley garnered through MA study. Truly, many hard working individuals grow up with these characterisics without ever setting foot inside a dojo.

Seen many 70 year olds boxing recently?

[bushido_man96]

They may not be competing. 70 year old Karatekas don't, either.

[Zanshin]

Also with reference to the whole Do vs Jutsu thng, this is a very lofty subject.

Basically there is a bit of misunderstanding as to the two approaches here in the west. Fundamentally there is no difference between the two.