Your Opinion on Tuition & Attendance / Training

[DWx]

I think 6 months would be quite a turnoff, I appreciate the idea behind it but in reality you are bound to pay for 6 months of training whether you like it or not.

Just a question ironsifu, what if someone in a situation like myself (uni student) trains whilst at uni (or somewhere else) and would like to supplement this with further training when they come home in the holidays. Would you let them spread the 6 months across a longer period so like they do a month in December and a couple of months in the summer, or would they have to pay for the whole six months when they would only train for one?

[ironsifu]

yeah if someone is only staying a few months i dont mind. but my school is now at a size where i dont have to take just any student who walks through my door, and after 16 years i have learn to be picky. one thing i dont like is wasting my time.

but every ad i put says "serious students only". and i mean it. our beginners course is a 6 month program, and you sign up for it. if the student does not finish it, then they are just a drop out. like the example i used earlier, try going to a university and saying "i want to sign up for classes, but in case i dont like it/its not for me/classes are too hard/etc.--i dont want to pay for the rest of the semester", its not going to work.

the commercial part of martial arts has really taken commitment and dedication out of the schools and made it a business, thats why people will say i wont stay unless it is exactly the way i want it. and that can mean easy enough, promote me fast enough, when do i get learn all that neat stuff i saw in ong bak, can i have my birthday party here, lol. martial arts relationship with our customers is different than any other business. in business, the customer is the boss, they flex their pocketbooks to get what they want. in the martial arts business, they are paying to basically please the teacher to get what the teacher has to offer... well at least in some schools.

i have found that people who school hop, end up 10 years into the art with beginner skill, and often no rank. of course there are the times that you just end up in a school with poor quality, but mostly the student just does not have what it takes to make it in a real school. i think its the job of the teacher to do everything he can to make sure the student is given the right tools to succeed in the martial arts, besides just punching kicking and holds, but the philosophy of how to be a student.

and the first rule of being a student is bringing your behind to class haha

[Tiger1962]

Part of that might apply in certain situations, however when discussing adults who seriously want to learn martial arts in their spare time, but also hold down a full time job, pay a mortgage or rent, their JOB MUST come first. Karate doesn't pay the bills or put a roof over one's head; that is unless you're the one owning and operating the karate school.

If a student who is an ADULT and dedicated, wants to learn, is committed 100% however has specific job demands, the situation, in my opinion, should be handled differently regarding tuition than children who just show up on a whim.

[ShoriKid]

If the student hasn't commited to a contract, then I wouldn't expect them to pay for a month of class where they did not attend. I've paid monthly dues and been able to make only 1 class that month due to work or school taking over. I didn't enjoy thinking about using up what little extra money I had to get a single night at the dojo.

In this case, no, I wouldn't expect a student to pay tuition for a month where they are not training at all. I sure wouldn't.

If this is a dedicated student, who loves the martial arts, but like many adults, has life commitments that don't allow them to train every night, work something out with them. I might not go as far as to go for a night by night pay set up, but something done on a weekly basis might work best. They obviously have no trouble paying, and are going to pay, as demonstrated by their willingness to pay for months when they are not even able to train at all. So, I don't think you have to worry on being stiffed for dues owed. This person clearly loves to train, it's just that they aren't in a job with convienent hours, and they aren't a kid with a flexible schedual that they control. I'd do what I could to encourage them to be there, and not stiffing them with dues for time they aren't in training could help.

To take ironsifu's McDonalds analogy and run with it. Charging dues when the student isn't there is like the manager adding 2 big macs and a shake to your bill when you ordered fries and a cheese burger. You don't get the big macs or shake, and if you ask he says its for yesterday's meal, when you skipped lunch to run and pay the bills.

This guy isn't sampling at the buffet after paying for the ribs. He's being charges for salad and a dessert when all he got to eat was the steak.

I see where your coming from ironsifu on wanting only dedicated and serious students. However, if your dealing with adults, not all of them have good jobs with predictable hours. Heck, I just got out of one last year where my hours/shifts changed day to day, week to week and I never knew when I went in when I was going to get to leave or if I'd even catch a lunch break. Cases like the one Tiger1962 brings up though are where knowing your student is the best case, and it sounds like your school is one where you would know your students, and could work something out with one who was trying and life was just fighting them.

[Tiger1962]

However, if your dealing with adults, not all of them have good jobs with predictable hours. Heck, I just got out of one last year where my hours/shifts changed day to day, week to week and I never knew when I went in when I was going to get to leave or if I'd even catch a lunch break. Cases like the one Tiger1962 brings up though are where knowing your student is the best case, and it sounds like your school is one where you would know your students, and could work something out with one who was trying and life was just fighting them.

exactly !

[Philosophical One]

Whenever this question arises I always think of standard gym memberships.

You pay for your 6 -12 month contract and you workout when you can.

Gyms expect people to drop out, it's up to the individual to work out their private lives and motivations.

It's nice of instructors to be accomodating but it's really none of our business, the student can be directed to the various pay structures and choose the correct one for themselves.

[Traymond]

Hmmm if I were to charge I would just be like 35 bux for eight lessons and they get like a punch card or something, and you can up the price if you wanted to. Punch cards are not that expensive, and all you need is a regular paper hole puncher. I mean you wont have to worry about them punching them, themselves, now would we?...haha

[white owl]

I like that idea .

[Traymond]

Haha. Thanks.

[lvmalone1]

As an instructor the tuition is relied upon consistantly to pay the bills. However if a student of mine comes to me and has a certain situation where they will not be able to train for a month, I will not require them to pay for time they can not train. You have to take care of your students, after all, they are what allow you to do what you love, train them and practice the art you enjoy. When you treat them as a number and are hard-lined you lose them permanently rather than for that month.

Lvmalone