Deep Stances? Or powerful technique?

[humble monk]

Good point. Often students come from other schools where they've been told "This is the correct and only way to do this technique." It becomes even more confusing when there are huge differences between two schools of the same style.

I personally have never felt comfortable putting the instructor on the spot with questions that really have no answer. "Why do you point your foot that way when the guy down the street says it should be this way?" For me the answer is because that's the standard in this school.

I guess for me, I'll listen to the instruction, and make my comparisons on my own time.

[tenshinka]

Good point. Often students come from other schools where they've been told "This is the correct and only way to do this technique." It becomes even more confusing when there are huge differences between two schools of the same style.

I personally have never felt comfortable putting the instructor on the spot with questions that really have no answer. "Why do you point your foot that way when the guy down the street says it should be this way?" For me the answer is because that's the standard in this school.

I guess for me, I'll listen to the instruction, and make my comparisons on my own time.

In our art we have a set of guiding principles...your post reminded me of a couple of them...First:

10.) Ask questions freely of the master or superior because you must strive to understand what you are learning.

and Second:

2.) Be polite and obedient to the master and other superiors. Be courteous among fellow students and followers. You must strive to develop humbleness.

Your instructor should take joy in being able to help you learn the art, and understand what you are doing. If they do not know an answer to a question, they should be able to find out...We are all learning...If they become defensive, or do not want you to ask questions, maybe its time to find another place to train.

The second principle is important, because you should ask questions, so as to be polite, and maintain a respectful tone, and attitude. Be patient, if an instructor does not know an answer to a question, don't make a big deal about it in front of the class, but maybe ask him/her on the side after class if he/she could find out.

The mark of a good teacher, and a good student alike is respect. If this is kept in mind, it is likely with you will not have issues

imho,

--josh

[DWx]

...Your instructor should take joy in being able to help you learn the art, and understand what you are doing. If they do not know an answer to a question, they should be able to find out...We are all learning...If they become defensive, or do not want you to ask questions, maybe its time to find another place to train.

Likewise for us we ask as many questions as possible. If our instructor doesn't know, he will look it up. He carries the TKD Condensed Encyclopedia with him and if that doesn't have the answers he usually goes away and finds out. If you ask why you are more likely to understand the technique and be able to apply it properly rather than just copying motions and just taking what you're told for granted.

[humble monk]

This, I think, is where we delve into the psychology of the Part time instructor vs. the full time one.

The part time guy, and this is just in my experience, has a job that pays the bills. He tends to instruct for the love of the arts, and that love has probably led him to ask the same questions we do. He teaches because he enjoys it, and tends to be a quality teacher because of that.

The full time guy has no other job, and therefore depends on the infalibility of the product he sells, which is instruction in his art. I have found that while he tends to have a deeper understanding of the art, he will defend it like a mother bear. He is aware that every art has flaws, but would just as soon not discuss those.

All of this is certainly not true of every instructor in either camp. It's more or less the trend I've come to notice, in my experience.

My original point was that every school and style has a way of doing things, and I don't really see changing the instructors mind on how they do those things. I wouldn't want to, frankly. Seeking a deeper understanding, sure. Bringing in, even unitentionally, a comparison to another school, seems to be asking the instructor to defend his style.

I agree that humility and respect are the keys here. Just my humble .02 cents.

[DWx]

This, I think, is where we delve into the psychology of the Part time instructor vs. the full time one.

The part time guy, and this is just in my experience, has a job that pays the bills. He tends to instruct for the love of the arts, and that love has probably led him to ask the same questions we do. He teaches because he enjoys it, and tends to be a quality teacher because of that.

The full time guy has no other job, and therefore depends on the infalibility of the product he sells, which is instruction in his art. I have found that while he tends to have a deeper understanding of the art, he will defend it like a mother bear. He is aware that every art has flaws, but would just as soon not discuss those.

All of this is certainly not true of every instructor in either camp. It's more or less the trend I've come to notice, in my experience.

My original point was that every school and style has a way of doing things, and I don't really see changing the instructors mind on how they do those things. I wouldn't want to, frankly. Seeking a deeper understanding, sure. Bringing in, even unitentionally, a comparison to another school, seems to be asking the instructor to defend his style.

I agree that humility and respect are the keys here. Just my humble .02 cents.

I think it also depends on the person themselves and how they wish to conduct their lessons. My instructor and his wife (our assistant instructor) are full time; TKD is their main income. But he is always welcome to suggestions or questions. We have a number of students who go to National Squad training where you get to see people from all different schools. If they are doing something slightly different or at the sessions we get told to do something different, our instructor will evaluate which he thinks is the better method. Sometimes he does change the way he does things. Similarly if he (or one of us) goes on a seminar or see something in another school or at a tournament, he will evaluate which way is the better way to do things. Personally I don't think you can have progression within a style if somebody doesn't question things. Not neccessarily question everything but I think sometimes its good to re-assess how you go about performing certain moves etc.

IMO its only a call for the instructor to defend their style if the student is indeed asking it in a challenging manner. For the sake of furthering knowledge I'm all for asking my teachers why and why not.

Just a difference in teaching philosphies really.

[bushido_man96]

Being open to questions and new ideas is important to advancement, especially if we claim to be always a student.

I think when attending a different school, it is important to learn the new things, and evaluate them and compare them to what you have done in the past, and then work with each on your own. No one gets offended, students don't ask why that guy does things differently, and you enhance your experience in the Martial Arts.

[Tiger1962]

this is true.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Tiger1962

[crazyferret]

While it is definitely easy to achieve both, I've seen it differ.

We've had a recent addition to our school, I believe he is a black belt in a previous school, which in my eyes makes him a black belt in our school. While doing Chon-Ji (first TKD form) his stances lacked a lot of depth, yet his blocks and punches were great.

If you were an instructor making corrections to his form, would you tell him deepen his stances? His technique is great, but they lack a bit of depth.

Just wondering on some opinions here.

Deep stances are worthless for fight training, in my opinion.