Definition of a "Warrior"??

[Karateka_latino]

Hi.. To me a warrior is a soldier. Not even a cop or a fireman is one. Warriors are the ones who go to War. Modern martial artist aren't warriors either, because we really don't train for war. The fact we train in ancient warriors arts doesn't make us warriors.

We try to develop a "warrior-like" mind set that's going to help us in our personal lifes. That's why all the gendai budo arts changed from "jutsu" to "Do" because they realized that this arts weren't going to be used in warfare anymore.

Not even the MMA fighters are warriors. People call the combat sports people warriors but they are more Gladiators.

My point is behave "warrior-like" doesn't make you a Warrior in all the extend of the word.

that's only my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

I don't think that not fearing death is what it takes to be a warrior. I do think that having to deal with the fact that you could die doing what you do should be a part of it.

I think that police and firemen could fall into that category. After all, a fireman has to go into a burning building at times; very good chance of death there. Police can be faced with the same dangers at times, too. A few of the officers around here have faced things like this; my dad has, as well.

Speaking of Gladiators, especially in ancient Rome, one of the combatants was almost certain to die. That would probably make them both warriors.

[tallgeese]

In response to the qustion posed between bushido man and throwdown, I agree that physical danger does need to be present.

I will go a step further than thowdown, though. I think that to properly use the word "warrior" one needs to be considering interpersonal danger- combat of some kind. A physical threat presentd maliciously by another human being.

Again, I don't think that one needs to be employed in a profession of arms to consider themselves such, but that one must be trainig his body and mind for such an event.

[ps1]

Hi.. To me a warrior is a soldier. Not even a cop or a fireman is one. Warriors are the ones who go to War. Modern martial artist aren't warriors either, because we really don't train for war. The fact we train in ancient warriors arts doesn't make us warriors.

We try to develop a "warrior-like" mind set that's going to help us in our personal lifes. That's why all the gendai budo arts changed from "jutsu" to "Do" because they realized that this arts weren't going to be used in warfare anymore.

Not even the MMA fighters are warriors. People call the combat sports people warriors but they are more Gladiators.

My point is behave "warrior-like" doesn't make you a Warrior in all the extend of the word.

that's only my opinion.

I agree 100%

I was in the military, at that time I was a warrior. I had to be ready to die when I went to war. Really, when you go to war...you leave everything as though you are already dead, like you don't expect to come back. Every moment you train and are ready to fight, even the support groups are warriors and may have to fight and die at a moments notice. It goes much farther than a state of mind. I was a warrior. When I ceased being a soldier, I also ceased being a warrior.

Just my opinion though.

[bushido_man96]

I was in the military, at that time I was a warrior. I had to be ready to die when I went to war. Really, when you go to war...you leave everything as though you are already dead, like you don't expect to come back. Every moment you train and are ready to fight, even the support groups are warriors and may have to fight and die at a moments notice. It goes much farther than a state of mind. I was a warrior. When I ceased being a soldier, I also ceased being a warrior.

Just my opinion though.

Thanks for the response, ps1. With your response in mind, I pose these questions for you:

Do you still carry the warrior mind set with you, ps1? Or do you leave it behind? Or is it really something that you can leave behind, once it is in you? Reading your statement above, do you feel that being a warrior has more to do with the situation that you are in as opposed to the mindset?

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts. I always appreciate them.

I also want to note that I have the greatest respect for our sevice men and women. I applaud them all.

I have always had respect for our soldiers. Now, I have been reading On Killing, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, and I respect them even more.

[KarateEd]

I don't think that not fearing death is what it takes to be a warrior.

I disagree. I think that it is a prerequisite to being a warrior. Does that mean that one can only be considered a warrior once he has completely conquered the fear of death? No, but the pursuit of that goal is necessary to become a warrior. For example, a great race car driver doesn't have to win every race he ever enters to be considered great, but he won't be labeled "great" if he doesn't pursue that goal.

a fireman has to go into a burning building at times; very good chance of death there.

Yet he still goes. Why? I don't think the fireman says to himself "I have no fear of death, I'm going in," instead he has been trained to perform a certain way in particular conditions and he acts on his training. However, the flip side to his training is that he acts in a manner contrary to an untrained person's sense of self preservation. Essentially, he is acting without the fear of death.

Is hoping to attain no fear of death the only requirement for a warrior? I don't think it is, though I believe it plays a major role.

I was rereading what Karateka_latino said, and I agree, that, as MA practitioners, "We try to develop a "warrior-like" mind set that's going to help us in our personal lives."

BTW, good topic bushido_man!

[bushido_man96]

BTW, good topic bushido_man!

Thanks, Ed.

My feeling on the fear of death is two-way:

1. You fear death, but you use that fear to drive you. You control it somewhat.

2. You have overcome your fear of death.

I think that if someone is thrown into a situation in which they have to survive, like a suprise attack or something like that which they have never experienced before, they will most likely be afraid, especially that they may die. However, I do believe that this fear can be used as motivation to survive, which in the end, helps the warrior to complete his mission.

I think when you break it down like this, there are so many different personalities out there that make us up; not all of us will learn to not fear being killed. Some of us may have conquered that fear already. However, I do feel that one can fear death, and still fulfill the traits of a warrior.

[KarateEd]

Perhaps I am thinking more of a disregard for the fear of death when it comes time to act. The fear is present but it isn't allowed take hold and direct one's actions.

Anywho, it would seem that a warrior also has to pursue some sort of training and that this training prepares the person to deal with the possibility of facing an extraordinary, life-threatening situation.

I would define a warrior as someone who continuously trains the mind, body, and spirit to deal with potentially life threating situations, and do so with a disregard for his/her own personal safety, if necessary.

I have a few questions. Is it required for a person to consistently face severe or life threatening danger in order to be considered a warrior? Consider two people whose training is exactly the same, yet one consistently faces life-threatening situations and the other faces just one or two such situations in his entire life. Is the first one a warrior and the second not?

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for elaborating above. Very good points.

I have a few questions. Is it required for a person to consistently face severe or life threatening danger in order to be considered a warrior? Consider two people whose training is exactly the same, yet one consistently faces life-threatening situations and the other faces just one or two such situations in his entire life. Is the first one a warrior and the second not?

This is a good question. If you follow tallgeese's approach, then both would be warriors. One is just, should I say, fortunate enough?, to be in situations to use his skills. But, some would say that being placed in those circumstances is required to be a warrior. Its a tough one to call, I think.

[Bushido-Ruach]

Hey gang....I think that I go with the traditional way that a warrior has been defined not only in American Indian cultures, but also ancient cultures of Japan, Greece, etc....

In these cultures, warriors were those who lived by a code of ethics and values such as honor, integrity, moral uprightness and so on, but it went beyond these. A warrior trained in fighting arts because the security of their families, villiages and even the nation, was their job in the cultural setting. The warriors were the hunters of their village, those who helped the elders and performed certain tasks, especially in the training of the younger males coming up of age to be considered warriors.

A warrior was much, much more than just one who trained in martial ways, and they held a high position in their cultures of respect and honor. Warriors were so highly looked up to and valued that some social positions could only be held by warriors, such as (obviously) the Chieftan leaders, councel of elders, and in some cultures, the medicine man and spiritual leaders.

I would like to consider myself a warrior, because I am the protector and provider for my family. We don't live in villages anymore, but I have served my country in the Marines and took the chance of being sent out to protect our ways of life. That's what I believe the word "warrior" means.

Hasta!