Questions on Aikido

[tallgeese]

This is a good discussion, and so far off topic even I have to stop and apologize.

Now, as to what was said above, Michi, you say things like what I list above should be taught along side the systems primary objectives. To me, it seems like, aside from principle based concepts, the kind of thing is at the heart of a goal set. At least when it's applied in a realistic setting.

[Wa-No-Michi]

This is a good discussion, and so far off topic even I have to stop and apologize.

Now, as to what was said above, Michi, you say things like what I list above should be taught along side the systems primary objectives. To me, it seems like, aside from principle based concepts, the kind of thing is at the heart of a goal set. At least when it's applied in a realistic setting.

TG - on reflection, my use of the word "objectives" in this sentence was perhaps not the best, I should have left it at "method" or "process".

The end results are probably the same, but the ways to get there differ.

With some "ways", the journey can take longer, but arguably the routes themselves can be more fulfilling (for some anyway).

But I say again, these journeys can (and should imo) be augmented with sd specific training along the way. As BM96 says in most good systems this is (or should be) implied anyway.

[JohnC]

To bring this back on topic a bit, I'd take out of context one of Tallgeese's comments:

"I would say that it wouldn't meet my standard for what I wanted."

The segue above has presumed that all / most students want to be able to move their training to the street in short order (i.e. training objective). Question is: are you sure all the folks that take Ki Aikido (a popular Aiki style promoted by Koichi Tohei that, imo, focuses a lot on soft don't hurt the other guy approaches and spiritual development) really have that objective? Is the "street lethal" objective what comes to mind when one visualizes Aiki schools?

If not, then is that the fault of Aiki and it's style or is it the fault of the student having unrealistic expectations of what the style teaches?

[Wa-No-Michi]

To bring this back on topic a bit, I'd take out of context one of Tallgeese's comments:

"I would say that it wouldn't meet my standard for what I wanted."

The segue above has presumed that all / most students want to be able to move their training to the street in short order (i.e. training objective). Question is: are you sure all the folks that take Ki Aikido (a popular Aiki style promoted by Koichi Tohei that, imo, focuses a lot on soft don't hurt the other guy approaches and spiritual development) really have that objective? Is the "street lethal" objective what comes to mind when one visualizes Aiki schools?

If not, then is that the fault of Aiki and it's style or is it the fault of the student having unrealistic expectations of what the style teaches?

Well John, I can understand this thought process and I have tried on this forum to present a considered opinion in this area, however in the most part, it seems that any aspects of ma that do not have a direct correlation with the "street lethal" objectives as you put it, seem to be relegated to the realms of antiquity.

You may have your work cut out here. I've all but given up really.

[joesteph]

Is the "street lethal" objective what comes to mind when one visualizes Aiki schools?

If not, then is that the fault of Aiki and it's style or is it the fault of the student having unrealistic expectations of what the style teaches?

I think that the less a student knows about a martial art, John, the more likely a misconception regarding it. That's why I (and I'm sure most others in the forum) believe that the student should observe a class; I like my instructor's idea that the student takes the first two weeks for free to find out if that's what s/he wants--or expects.

I also think that the instructor should ask the prospective student what s/he is looking for, holds as a priority, regarding the martial art. And what is the age of the student? Maybe it's both student and parent that the discussion's with.

[tallgeese]

I've always stated, or at least implied I hope, that there are many reasons that one would want to study the ma's. Mine is not the only viewpoint out there. Being a discussion board, that's the view that I work from.

It is not the only legitimate one out there.

I agree with joe that anyone should definatly go and observe, even try a class, to see if it is what they want out of the time they are going to put in. Conversly, instructors need to be sure that they are not trying to sell a product to a student who they can clearly tell is interested in other aspects of the ma's.

[JohnC]

Tallgeese,

No offense meant, bro. As I posted, I took your statement out of context. No implications were implied

Joesteph,

I understand. I'm not sure I agree because, again, imo, the linking of MA and "misconception regarding it" carries with it the assumption I mentioned above (i.e. the primary purpose of MA is SD). Aiki-jutsu folks will tell you their stuff has at least some SD focus but Aikido folks rarely do (and this topic is Aikido focused. It says so on the label. )

However, this might be generalized (and perhaps needs its own topic) to "Should instructors teach what the student wants to learn or what the instructor wants to teach?" To me this question has far reaching consequences that forums talk around on many threads. For example, should traditional styles do away with traditional techniques that have no real application now-a-days? Should styles limit themselves to the techniques that the majority of students are capable of doing and get rid of the 360 degree jump spin back kicks or force students to attempt stuff they'll never be able to do well because it's 'traditional'. I'm sure we've all had the situation where the student voted with his feet and not just took his business elsewhere but quit MA completely because it didn't give him what he wanted. Where's the balance and how does one find it?

May be just rambling Your thoughts?

[joesteph]

[T]his might be generalized (and perhaps needs its own topic) to "Should instructors teach what the student wants to learn or what the instructor wants to teach?"

John, I started a new topic with exactly the question you raised, under General Chat.

[tallgeese]

Well, we're all have to go over there and finish up (Aikido was in the title wasn't it ).

No offense was taken John, I was just trying to make sure I didn't ruffle any feathers.

[joesteph]

John, I started a new topic with exactly the question you raised, under General Chat.

IT'S UNDER INSTRUCTOR CENTRAL INSTEAD, DUE TO INSTRUCTOR/INSTRUCTION CONTENT

Direct link:

http://www.karateforums.com/should-instructors-teach-what-the-student-wants-to-learn-vt35266.html

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