Questions on Aikido

[Zanshin]

Not saying that it's a bad art to study, but looking at an time to efficiency equation it does come out on the "too l ng" end for my taste. But I am the guy that thinks you should be able to radically increase your capability to take care of yourself in 6 months or so.

I agree with your assessment here, tallgeese. I don't have a problem with taking a lifetime to master a system, but at the same time I feel that the system should make you a competent fighter relatively quickly.

And then what...?

[tallgeese]

You keep training...keep getting better. A radical increse in skill dosen't signify the end of knowledge. Just an increase in you abilty from base.

The more time you spend in training, the more efficent you'll become across a wider array of situations. That's never a bad thing.

[joesteph]

I agree about the limited fighting application of aikido . . .

Not saying that it's a bad art to study, but looking at a time to efficiency equation it does come out on the "too long" end for my taste. But I am the guy that thinks you should be able to radically increase your capability to take care of yourself in 6 months or so.

I do think that there is a ton of beauty in aikido, and that after years of training the movements therein can be useful. It's just a different aspect that some people are looking for.

I agree with you about taking a martial art and increasing your ability to defend yourself in a reasonable amount of time, Tallgeese; six months is not unreasonable.

But I wondered about those who study aikido. Is it an art that's approached by those who have already studied--and may be proficient in--another martial art, or even martial arts, but are now looking for something that is the "different aspect" you suggest?

[tallgeese]

I think that, if it is what you are looking to do, then aikido can be a perfectly acceptable primary art. If it's training philosphy melds with what you are looking for and you can accept the limitations of the art. (Let's face it, we all have limitations in what we do. Aikido is not alone in this catagory, in faact, we are all there)

That being said, I know several individuals who have taken up aikido as a secondary art and gotten a whole new prespective on their defensive outlook. I think that it can be a useful secondary art to study, espically if your primary focus has no joint manipulation integrated. As metntioned ealier, it can teach you to flow and move very well, which is often overlooked in harder styled oriental arts.

[Ottman]

That being said, I know several individuals who have taken up aikido as a secondary art and gotten a whole new prespective on their defensive outlook. I think that it can be a useful secondary art to study, espically if your primary focus has no joint manipulation integrated. As metntioned ealier, it can teach you to flow and move very well, which is often overlooked in harder styled oriental arts.

I completely agree with you tallgeese, and this is exactly what happened to me after just a few months of Aikido (Aiki-JuJitsu to be precise) training. I have 14 years of Tae Kwon Do training and 5 of BJJ, with a few other styles sprinkled in and if you've ever read my posts here I'm kind of stubborn about training for practical self defense. However, I never even considered Aikido training until it suddenly dawned on me that that's what i should be doing. Even though it was a sudden awakening, it was definitely the result of years of prior training that I was trying to fit into my view of an effective self defense system. When I started looking into Aikido deeper and deeper, I realized it was what was missing from my skill set. Since I started training though, it's done more than change my style of martial arts, it's changed the way I think of motion in general (and I'm kind of a physics geek too, so it was a quite potent realization.)

Anyway, I do feel that Aikido can make anyone better equipped to defend themselves in a relatively quick period just because of the way the training makes you aware of your own movement in such an effective way. Whereas I've experienced external arts like TKD and BJJ as focusing more on being aware of your opponent and their movement, and how to manipulate and control what they're doing (not that there aren't internal aspects to these arts as well), I think that Aikido and other internal arts shift the focus to being more aware and in control of your own motion and balance, etc. and therefore you'll be more ready to deal with what you may come up against, and less likely to freeze or hesitate as you try to get a hold of your own body and motion. Since Aikido (at least what I was taught) teaches you more about your body's motion in general, rather than just self defense, you begin thinking about that motion as it applies to every movement your body makes, rather than just self defense movements, and therefore, you don't have to shift from casual mode to fight mode. Motion is just motion, whatever is happening. (That's been my Aikido experience anyway (er, Aiki Jujitsu if it makes any difference to those out there reading this) )

[bushido_man96]

Not saying that it's a bad art to study, but looking at an time to efficiency equation it does come out on the "too l ng" end for my taste. But I am the guy that thinks you should be able to radically increase your capability to take care of yourself in 6 months or so.

I agree with your assessment here, tallgeese. I don't have a problem with taking a lifetime to master a system, but at the same time I feel that the system should make you a competent fighter relatively quickly.

And then what...?

You keep training...keep getting better. A radical increse in skill dosen't signify the end of knowledge. Just an increase in you abilty from base.

Exactly. I never said that one should seek competent self-defense skills within 6 months, and then quit. However, I do know that many people have time constraints that just don't allow them to train full time. Therefore, if they can take several courses over a period of time to get better at defending themselves, then I see no reason to frown upon it.

[arcelt]

I studied Goju Ryu for ten years and have just recently begun studying Aikido. While my understanding of Aikido is elementary at the moment, I am already willing to bet that it would take many, many years to be able to employ Aikido by itself in a confrontation.

However, I can also readily imagine, again putting myself in a hypothetical confrontation, how, in the midst of the struggle, I might notice an to employ a throw or lock I learned in Aikido, thereby enhancing my Goju.

Just my $.02, but my understanding of the situation is that, if one is looking to quickly increase their fighting skills, Aikido might not be the place to start. If, however, an experienced martial artist is seeking to move their practice into a new dimension, one could do far worse than study Aikido.

[joesteph]

While my understanding of Aikido is elementary at the moment, I am already willing to bet that it would take many, many years to be able to employ Aikido by itself in a confrontation. . . .

[M]y understanding of the situation is that, if one is looking to quickly increase their fighting skills, Aikido might not be the place to start. If, however, an experienced martial artist is seeking to move their practice into a new dimension, one could do far worse than study Aikido.

There was a posting I'd read (out of many excellent postings; my apologies to the author that I can't give credit), with the opinion that, if someone wanted to learn self-defense, s/he is automatically directed to a school of martial arts. But, the author observed, MA takes a considerable amount of time, especially in that so much of it is art as well as self-defense. The author is right; MA is not a "fast-track" at all to self-defense, and some take much more time to master than others.

Have any members of the forum taken up boxing? Not kickboxing; I mean Jack Dempsey/Muhammed Ali-style. I understand that boxers work out like madmen (and madwomen), and that they do an awful lot of contact sparring--the closest someone can come to an actual fight w/o being in one. I know there are rules in boxing, just as there are in MA tournaments, but it's not just a contact sport ("sport"? You can get KOed!), it's one in which you quite rapidly get introduced to what an actual fight situation is like.

I wonder if someone who wants to learn self-defense more rapidly than in a "regular" MA school, but doesn't find a reality-based one, might find that boxing would be the next-best alternative. To the boxing purists, I do realize that boxing is "The Sweet Science," but I'm wondering if, for more immediate results for self-defense, that reality-based might come first, and then boxing.

BTW, Arcelt, I'm of the opinion that Aikido and Taiji are martial arts that someone who has been in the roughest MA you can think of (Disclaimer: No style is better than any other style!), just might enjoy either or both of these martial arts very, very much.

[arcelt]

BTW, Arcelt, I'm of the opinion that Aikido and Taiji are martial arts that someone who has been in the roughest MA you can think of (Disclaimer: No style is better than any other style!), just might enjoy either or both of these martial arts very, very much.

I second that, Joesteph...While Goju is known for being both hard and soft, it's the "hard" part that really stands out to me in my memory. The soft and flowing movements of Aikido almost seem like magic to me in comparison.

[bushido_man96]

There was a posting I'd read (out of many excellent postings; my apologies to the author that I can't give credit), with the opinion that, if someone wanted to learn self-defense, s/he is automatically directed to a school of martial arts. But, the author observed, MA takes a considerable amount of time, especially in that so much of it is art as well as self-defense. The author is right; MA is not a "fast-track" at all to self-defense, and some take much more time to master than others.

I think that this is where the confusion lies. There is a difference between learning effective self-defense, and mastering a Martial Arts style. The latter should take a lifetime; the former should not. Acquiring good, solid self-defense skills, from any MA, should not take years to acquire. It should come in the first 6 months of training, I think, at least. Now, I am not talking about being able to enter a ring and win an MMA match, or being a Master. I am talking about being able to either keep yourself out of a fight, being able to do enough to survive and live another day.