in search of karate

[mel]

Whilst I dont advocate throwing beginners in at the deep end, Shiai/Jiyu Kumite whether it be full or semi contact, is a vital part of your Karate training and for many styles (like mine), it is an essential part of our conditioning as well.

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MEL:

1. Part of Sanchin training involved being hit and slapped around a fair bit to test the tension of the body. I had no complaint about that

2. Accidental blows during jiyu-kumite, I'll waive...intentional, no

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That said, giving you the benefit of the doubt you may have just been unlucky with the few experiences that you have had. It could down to the instructors in those clubs being thoughtless knuckleheads maybe. More and more these days it seems that instructors substitute their lack of technical knowledge with fighting for the sake of fighting.

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MEL: How true...which was why I took my money back to the bank, and spent around $50 on a book, and did katas, basics, and bag work on my own

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Unfortunately, I am not a great believer in self teaching from books or videos either. I agree that reference material is useful, particularly for people who already have a good basic grasp of the art they are studying, but this should always be used as a companion to dojo training and not as a substitute IMO.

In short, as has been said before, budo arts like karate are forged in the furness of the Dojo. It is the tireless, exhausting, bruising training under the watchfull eye of a knowledgeable instructor (who has been along the path you are walking) that will eventually shape you into a karate-ka.

But again welcome to the forums

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MEL: I fully agree with the above, and thanks for the welcome

[mel]

Books are good, but they don't teach the lttle stuff like making sure hips in the right position for kicks, kata, hand techniques and even throws (for self-defense) which is so important. And does your book give you a partner to work with?

MEL: I agree with you, and yes the book KARATE DO KYOHAN required partner work. Unfortunately, I was lucky to find only one person (when he was here in Australia) who was suitable for training, and he was a native of Okinawa itself. All others I came across were too busy with their own personal glories

The young Japanese national above thought we were only going to do basics and pre-arranged sparring at the most. We did full-sparring, and yes I did get hit hard. There was however, much respect between the 2 of us. It's a pity he's no longer around

[mel]

Yeah, I second the others, you're best bet is to find someone and train reguarly.

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MEL: Actually, the main aim for me was to enter classes again, and still is

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Books are for reference and learning things you may not be regularly exposed to. Beside, even if you come across something you want to work on, how are you going to practice without someone to train with.

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MEL: I agree

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As for injuries, they happen. Espically in systems with hard training methods. It shouldn't turn you off, just accept it as part of what you signed on for. And, as stated, serious injuries are fairly rare. After years of doing this with some pretty good intensity and regularity, I can recall only two incidents that caused me lost time at work. That's not bad. Now, my time off the mat was a bit higher but that's to be expected.

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MEL: My issue on this is that I just never developed the habit of collecting injuries that were the result of intention as opposed to accidental

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I'd suggest not to be too worried about what you'll be able to do at 70.

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MEL: My concern was falling into fighting habits more suitable for a 20 year old full of muscles and ego, rather than that of someone much older and wiser. Proper technique was what I always had in mind

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Train with what you feel serves your needs best now. Soak it in as long as possible. When your physiology needs to adapt to a new form or change you methods of training, you can do so. None of us will be able to make contact as we age like we do now.

I've already had to modify how I train. I'm not even that aged, but I don't recover from heavy contact like I used to. This needs to be spaced out now. Smarter not harder. I have no doubt that in 15 years I'll have to modify further or explor other regualar training options. But I'll still have all those years of experiance under me that I'm accruing now. That won't go away. So don't stress that factor just yet.

Find an instructor you like, teaching what you see to serve your needs best and dive in. Then use privates and books to suppliment the experiance you're gaining. Probibly would work the best

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MEL: I agree with you

[mel]

Martial arts especially Karate are striking arts and the best way to learn how to fight is to fight. I agree with everyone regards to the fact that you want an art to work on

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MEL: Yes I agree

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but don't know which direction to go to.

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MEL: Karate

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I would recommend Wado Ryu, this is a blend of Shotokan and Jujitsu, working more on the lines of Sabaki, Body rotation. As you are 70 I would think this would be good for you. We have a 72 year old in the class I attend and he does well, being a Brown belt.

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MEL: I will also consider Wado, depending on the travelling distances involved. For the moment, Shotokan seems more common in my locality

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Please Mel, don't get drawn into sigining any 'Membership' agreements until YOU are happy with the style - I wish you'd have asks us all long ago - I would have advised you against Kyokushin. Although I personally love the style and practice Ashihara karate which is an 'offshot' of kyokushin.

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MEL: I was merely thinking 'the grass was greener on the other side'...at the time

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Muay Thai/kickboxing are about stamina and work well in the ring but not against street fighters unless you are excellent in it.

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MEL: They tried to get me to move like a kick boxer during classes in the Seido style, and I basically refused. During full sparring, I move in the very old style more common with the likes of Nakayama-sensei, partly because as I can't for the life of me relate boxer training and ring-time with being hit and grabbed from behind especially when I'm doing security work late at night in the dark, or in rock concerts

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Karate kata bunkai is what you need. Sparring - unless you are competing - forget it. Karate is not about how 'hard' you are it is about the weak defending themselves from the agressors and muggers etc

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MEL: Bunkai was the one thing no one could provide for me properly, and Sport Karate had never been acceptable to me...but that's just me, of course

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There are loads of styles out there that you could try but you gotta think about time - if you wanna learn quick, Krav Maga is a good system but it doesn't give you the same 'feeling' as karate.

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MEL:

1. I've got the patience to learn tradition (as I prefer tradition) but it does help if the instructor can give me ideas on where it's all headed. Unfortunately, what I got where boasts of knowledge of secret arts which apparently will be revealed in time

2. I think you've hit the nail on the head above...because it does not have the same feeling as karate

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Tai Chi (Chen Style) is also very good but this also takes time to learn

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MEL: I keep telling people that I'll be open-minded about kung-fu or even taekwondo, but it's not easy(*grin*)

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If there are any Martial arts shows that you can get to which have Multistyle exhibitions then I would go to them so you can see what goes on

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MEL: I agree. You're right

[mel]

Reading your reply, made me re-read Mel's original post.

MEL:...(*smiles/peace*)......

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I must admit, I did not interpret from it that he/she was 70 years old, but maybe I got that wrong.

Mel, if your out there, are you able to confirm your age?

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MEL: I'm only 45 years old

[mel]

You should look into these incidences of injuries that you discussed. Do these things happen weekly at these schools?

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MEL: They took place mainly at the Goju dojo I first went to. I can't speak of other dojos that I went to after I left that one concerning injuries, but bully-boy tactics of sorts were also apparently happening in Kanazawa-sensei's Shotokan organization. I took it as a warning when one of Kanazawa's colour belt junior students told me that respect, diplomacy, and politeness would fly out the window if the seniors pushed their luck in any of the Shotokan dojos

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Have you actually had much classroom experiences with these instructors?

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MEL: Yes, and what I've seen what they've done amongst themselves during jiyu-kumite. I was NOT impressed by the behaviour

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These are things that I believe you should look into. Go to the classes, and try to partake in some of them. This will give you a feel for what to expect.

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MEL: There's a local JKA class near my work. I'll check it out when things stabilize at work

To everyone, I offer my greetings and give thanks for the welcome

Thanks for your time

Mel

[tallgeese]

Intentional contact is also part of training to fight. Let's remember that when we strip away all the talk about philosphy and priciple, we are learning to fight. That's the martial part of martial arts.

Any program that is staying true to this concept, or focuses on real -world combatives, is going to have fairly good levels of intentional contact on a fairly frequent basis. This is usually in the form of sparring, but is often also in the form of simulation trainng.

If you're wanting to persue this, look for control with the contact, and comradarie afterwards. The reasons for the classes contact should be clear. If it's part of the cirriculum, then it's fine. If its one or two guys hot-dogging, then there may be a problem. Espically if the instructor isn't controlling them.

Over all though, if you're in this activity, expect contact as accepted in training.

[white owl]

Mel, No hard feelings, but you are going to get hit, your going to get bruised, that is Martial Arts that is why we all practice for the self defense and the glory of it. I know from a womans stand point I do not like getting all these bruise and knots all over my body but it is better to be condition to them now than when it comes time to defend my self from a attack and getting hit then, an being shock by it. And losing that reaction time to defend my self, that in which could be deadly to myself. Because every second counts in a self defense situation, right.

Search the web for schools in your area. Check them schools out, you really need to be in a dojo environment, the right environment.

[granitemiller]

Search around until you find an instructor that will listen to you and provide you with what you are looking for.